Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by PGTI University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host.
Good morning. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and we are tackling a new series today. This is Windows and Doors 301. And for our listeners, we've also done a 101 a few years ago and then 201 with our code compliance team.
We are getting into the deep dive nitty gritty of a lot of different topics through this series, but today we are going to be talking about energy, and I'm relying on our code compliance team. So in studio we have Lisa Wilson, Logan Yoder, and Alonso Morlasen. So welcome.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:01:01] Speaker C: Thank you. Good morning.
[00:01:02] Speaker D: Thank you.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: Good morning. Thanks for being here. And so, Lisa, you're returning, but Alonzo and Logan, you're new, so we want to just do a quick round of introductions. Tell us a little bit about your role, maybe your experience, whatever designations or qualifications you have, and then we're going to get right into it. We're going to be talking about Energy Star versus Energy Code today. Okay. So, Lisa, we'll start with you. And welcome back.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Thank you. Good morning. I'm Lisa Wilson. I have been with PGT for almost 30 years now. I was one of the founding members of the CO compliance department. That was back in 2002 when the Florida building code came out, the new one, the 2001.
And from there I've seen so many changes and energy definitely is one of the things that has changed immensely since I've started. When I first started, it really wasn't even spoken of and now seems like we hear about it every day. So I'm excited to do those podcasts with everyone. Thank you for having us.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Thanks for being here. All right, Logan.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So super excited to be here. I'm Logan Yoder. I'm a co compliance engineer. I started here at PGT just over two years ago after I graduated from Liberty University with my mechanical engineering degree. And so now as a code compliance engineer, a lot of the time I'm working on NFRC and thermal side of things, testing and certification, but also the structural testing and certification for our PGT products.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Awesome. Okay. And Alonzo.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:32] Speaker D: Good morning. And also very excited to be here. So I'm a senior co compliance engineer for the past two years here at pgt. Previous Darwin, I was a certification engineer for ICC or International Code Council and the division of Solar Rating Certification Corporation.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: Wow. This is such a beautiful thing to have. So much wisdom. And experience in one room at one time. I feel like I've definitely gathered the right people for this conversation. So nod to Lynn Miller for recommending you three for this. And so we talked about Energy Code and Energy Star last year with Kevin Vilhauer, who is our VP of engineering for our Western division. And I think it was episode 113. But we want to do a deep dive, especially now that Energy Star 7.0 is in full effect. And so just a quick, what is the main difference between Energy Star and Energy Code?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Sure. So the main difference between Energy Star and Energy Code is the fact that Energy Star is a codes plus voluntary program that manufacturers and consumers can choose whether or not they'd like to participate, where Energy Code is a building code requirement typically done state by state. And that's a requirement in order to build or to improve an old building.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: Okay, so one is necessary, one is optional.
[00:03:51] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: Got it. Okay. And so for our Florida audience, how do people stay in compliance with the energy part of the Florida building code?
[00:04:01] Speaker C: In Florida, we have different methods you can use. We base everything off the IECC codes. Of course, we're going to have different numbers in Florida than you would up north. And also in the iecc, all the states base their energy codes off of that. All states may have something a little different depending on their area and what they need for U factors or HGC factors. And also they also might base like some of the states are still on the 2018 IECC codes, where other ones are on the 2021. So it's really important to check to see where they're at. But for Florida, we stay pretty up to date on those because of our climate. So you have different ways to meet energy down here. It depends if you're residential or commercial, there's different numbers. If you're a new construction or replacement, there's different ways to meet that and then existing. So in Florida, you have two different climate zones. You have climate zone one and two. Climate zone one includes Dade, Broward, Monroe, Palm Beach, Hendry Lee and Collier County.
In the residential, for prescriptive numbers, residential prescriptive is the most popular. You don't really see performance methods too often in residential replacement because it would be very difficult to meet all the different performance methods with different walls, flooring, et cetera. But when you come to the prescriptive numbers. So in zone one, you have no U factor requirement. Zone two you do, and it changes if it's impact or non impact.
And then the solar heating number is always a 0.25. And that's really important for performance method. There's trade offs that you can use. So they could look at your H vac, which is important. Your flooring, your ceiling, your insulation, et cetera, and performance, the trade offs. Most builders will look at that. That's really important to look at in residential, though. You have to also keep in mind that when they're using that, there's a limit that they can go to on their SHTC. It's a 0.5, I believe. And then in commercial, there's prescriptive numbers which vary. They're different from the residential. And they also have their own numbers as well for you factors and shgc.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Okay, so Alonzo, can we just do like a quick recap on SHGC and U factor?
[00:06:26] Speaker D: Sure. So first of all, they're rated by the NFRC National Administration and Rating Council. So that's the nonprofit organization who dictates how to do those ratings and testing of the windows and doors. So those ratings are the U factor, the solar heat gain coefficient, and the visibility transmissivity. So we can talk about a little bit more specific about each one of them if you want.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: We are sharing our expertise around all topics relating to the window indoor industry. Whether you are a customer selling our products or a homeowner doing research, the Clear Impact podcast provides helpful content that makes an impact. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
Yeah, so let me see if I'm up to speed with this, because I think so. So SHGC is solar heat gain coefficient, and that is the amount of energy that is sunlight that comes in. Which if you're up north, you want that if you're in the south, you don't. And the U factor is the insulation, which matters more when you have a bigger temperature deviation between the desired temperature inside and the climate outside.
[00:07:41] Speaker D: So the solar key gradient is more or less about solar radiation.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Radiation. Okay.
[00:07:46] Speaker D: No light.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: Okay. But I got the definitions right, correct? Yes. Okay. All right. I have learned a couple things since I've been here.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: Oh, and I'm sorry. One thing I wanted to add when you meeting codes, this is important, is the residential replacement. I forgot to mention that there is a declaratory statement which most building departments follow. So if a homeowner was replacing their units, what it reads is it follows a Florida statute that if your new units, windows, doors, et cetera, are less than 30% of the assessed value of the property, then you do not need to meet those prescriptive numbers. And that's something to definitely Keep in mind when they're placing for permitting, because I get calls on that probably every week.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: Okay. So the benefit would be that they don't have to meet the code, but then they're missing out on the insulation values and the energy efficiency of those products. By not meeting that.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Right. They will not be meeting those numbers necessarily. But of course, replacing your units, you're going to get better than those old windows from 20 years ago.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Sure, sure. Exactly. Okay. So my understanding is that there are criteria for individual products like Windows or do that can meet Energy Star, but then there's also designations for rating an entire home as Energy Star. And so can we have a little bit more detail on this?
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Sure. So you're exactly correct. There's sort of two programs you're talking about there. There's the base Energy Star program that rates specific windows and doors given a set of criteria, which is now version seven of the Energy Star program. And that was put into effect in October 2023, on October 23rd. And so that looks at each window and door product, individually checks it against the criteria of U factor and SHGC for a specific climate zone. And that says whether or not the product meets Energy Star criteria. Whereas the single family new homes program, that's looking at the entire building. So the envelope of the building, as well as the different equipment that's put inside, like the H vac unit, maybe the water heater, many other examples of what's gone into the single family new home program. And that requires an energy rater to take into account all those factors and to perform calculations to ensure that the building meets the Energy Star single family new home requirements. And so that's a lot more difficult for us to indicate whether or not our products meet that program, because there's such a wide variety of ways that you can be compliant with that program, where we can easily say whether or not our windows and doors meet base Energy Star for a specific alignment zone.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Okay. And so Energy code is a must, but Energy Star is an option. Why would someone want to meet Energy Star?
[00:10:36] Speaker D: So the benefits of the Energy Star are so you will have a lower electric bill, so your house will be more energy efficient. That will help also for product differentiation, so you have a better product. So the manufacturers, they can advertise they have an Energy Star product. And also there are other benefits like tax breaks or tax credits, so we can talk about a little bit of those ones. So, for example, for the Energy Star program, you have, for the Windows, you have 30% of the product cost up to $600 and that's per year. And if you're going to meet the Energy Star more efficient program, then for the doors, you have a 30% of the product up to the cost, up to 150 per door, up to $500 per year. And that's for the Energy Star program.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Okay, that can add up.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: So maybe we should touch on what the most efficient versus the Energy Star, the base Energy Star program.
[00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah, let's talk about that.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: So Energy Star, there's the base program that we talked about earlier. That's the version 7. But Energy Star is a program put on by the Department of Energy. It's a federal program and they also do every single year a most efficient criteria, which is a step even beyond Energy Star. So if Energy Code is the base, that's a requirement. And Energy Star is a codes plus to step above Energy Code. Energy Star most efficient is a step beyond even Energy Star. And so it's very difficult and very expensive to meet. And it's a struggle for manufacturers to meet the current criteria for 2024. It's very difficult. So for Windows requiring that, it's difficult to get that tax credit because it's very difficult to meet the most efficient criteria.
[00:12:11] Speaker D: And on the last program, we have single family new homes, and those are $2,500 for each new certified home.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Oh, okay.
[00:12:19] Speaker C: Oh, no. Just something I was going to add onto Energy Star when you were asking why some folks might want to meet that. On top of all the reasons Alonzo listed, there's also green programs like California and the Lead. And they lots of times will require Energy Star rated units. So that's something to keep in mind. In addition, with Energy Star in the future, some states I know, Colorado recently passed a law that they are going to be requiring Energy Star, not just the Energy Code. So it's something for us to be on the lookout for and to keep in the back of our minds when we're looking at developing products.
[00:13:01] Speaker A: Right, I did not know that. Interesting. Well, I know California has its own thing. They have a whole code that's called Title 24. And we actually have a course on that. And if we think our criteria is difficult and challenging. And Florida, California has its own thing, it's very complex to meet Title 24. I've glanced through it and it's things like a limited number of windows on the west side of the building, things like that. So it gets even trickier out there. But yeah. Okay. Well, I feel like this has been a good overview between Energy Star And Energy Code. Are there any resources or websites or places that people can go to get more information? Or if one of our dealers has a question about any of this, what resources do we have for them?
[00:13:48] Speaker D: They can reach to our department and Lisa is well versed on all these issues.
[00:13:53] Speaker A: So everybody can call Lisa. Great. She's going to love that.
[00:13:57] Speaker D: But also they can go to the Energy Star website.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: I believe it's Energy Star.gov.
[00:14:02] Speaker D: Yeah, they have a lot of information there.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Right. And I think there's some additional resources on at least for pgt. On the PGT website, if you click on the little tab that says resources, I believe that there is a white paper there.
[00:14:15] Speaker C: It's there, yes. Logan and Alonzo did a great job putting that white paper together and that's a great resource for everybody. It's a quick summary, but it digs into the information that you need. I would recommend people checking that out and then they can call me if they need to.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: Right, right. And we also have some energy courses available through the university as well. We have Florida Building FBC Decoding Energy. We have a couple of different instructor led courses which are on the calendar via Zoom. And then we just recently posted an elear around energy code as well. So there's a lot of information out there to get and we make it as easy as we can for you. So that wraps up this episode. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your experience and your knowledge with us and we'll talk again soon.
[00:15:02] Speaker C: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: All right, thanks.
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