Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by P G T I University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host. So good afternoon. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and we're talking about some building code updates and I'm so thankful for the expertise that we have in studio today. We have Jim Heis and Lynn Miller at the same time. How amazing is that? And so, um, thanks guys for making time for us today. Alright.
Speaker 2 00:00:35 Happy to be here. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:00:36 Thanks for having us. Sherry,
Speaker 1 00:00:37 Before we continue, can you each just do a brief recap of your role and areas of expertise and so Jim?
Speaker 2 00:00:44 Well I've been with P G T University for a little under 20 years and during that period of time one of my responsibilities was to help work with the building commission and developing any of the codes that are related to our industry, the fenestration industry. And ended up being a co-chairman for different associations. So again, all tied in together at that particular point. So since then I have also written the required advance code class for Florida a i A that architects are required to take at once every two years basically. And that's it.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 And you're still part of our team?
Speaker 2 00:01:20 Uh, yes I am. As a matter of fact, I just gave a class today Florida building code class to an architect group that were, came to visit Florida, basically a lunch and learn.
Speaker 1 00:01:29 Nice. And so we're glad to still have you as part of our team. And I know you tried to retire and we just said, no way man. You're gonna just stick around 'cause we can't lose your knowledge.
Speaker 2 00:01:38 Uh, no, it's fun. I do it because I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 00:01:41 Well you're also very good at it and we appreciate that. And so Lynn Miller, welcome back to the studio. Thank
Speaker 3 00:01:46 You. Good to be here.
Speaker 1 00:01:47 So tell us a little bit about you, brief recap of uh, role and responsibilities here. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:01:51 I'm the Code Compliance Manager for P G T Innovation. So I cover all of our southeast brands, so all the brands in Florida. Basically anything that's related to product approvals, code compliance for all of those brands. Our department is responsible for that. I've been with P G T for 13 years now and I'm also involved with code committees at the uh, fenestration and Glazing Industry Alliance. Uh, also involved with working with the Florida Building Commission. I attend the meetings, keep an eye on things, uh, make sure that we're understanding the changes that are being proposed, that type of thing. I'm involved with A S T M and also on the uh, A S C E seven Wind Load Subcommittee and working with the, uh, wind load standards as well.
Speaker 1 00:02:31 There's a whole bunch of initials that you just threw out, <laugh>, that our listeners will know what those are. Right? <laugh>?
Speaker 2 00:02:37 No, not necessarily. They'll have
Speaker 3 00:02:38 Listen to some of the older podcasts to know what those are
Speaker 1 00:02:41 Are. Right, right. So anyway, lots of expertise in the room right now, which is my favorite way to do a podcast. So I know that in the state of Florida there's a unified building code, which came about largely because of the devastation caused by Hurricane Andrew in 1992. And so that all was first launched. The F B C Florida Building Code was launched in 2002 and it's updated every three years or thereabouts. And so with that, we're approaching the eighth edition, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that will happen in 2024 'cause we're halfway through 2023. Yeah,
Speaker 3 00:03:17 That's correct. It would be January of 2024 is when it's basically going to be implement. Right,
Speaker 1 00:03:21 Right. Yeah, January 1st. So it's not like they decide November 1st. Hey, we should take a look at that. The deadline's coming, they work on it continually throughout the year. And so Lynn, can you talk about what that process? And Jim, I wanna hear from you about that too. So what's the process for updating the codes and what does that look like?
Speaker 3 00:03:38 Yeah, sure, I can do that. So basically the way it works in Florida, they call it a triannual cycle. So every three years we have to update the building code. So that's a rule, uh, a Florida rule that they have to do that. And what we work with is we work with the current building codes. So currently we are under the seventh edition 2020 Florida Building Code. So we use that code as our base to start developing the eighth edition, which is coming out soon. And as part of that process, we have all of the information that's in that code stays intact. And then we also look at the current international building code or the I codes and we look for changes in there that may want to be implemented that we may want to also include in the new Florida building code. And so there's a process where the Florida Building Commission actually has their staff actually looks at the international codes and they determine which portions of that need to be brought over. And then there's a period after that where industry like ourselves can submit proposals. So if we see that, oh, there's a, there's a dire need for a change in this one specific area of the code, we can put a proposal forward and that gets reviewed by technical advisory committees for the Florida Building Commission. And then it's reviewed by the commission as well. And then if it's approved by all it's adopted into the new code.
Speaker 1 00:04:52 Alright. And so how many people are involved? Oh my
Speaker 3 00:04:55 Lots. There's a lot because if you think about the Florida Building Commission itself is 18 members right now, and those are the ones that have the final say in whenever a vote is happening for moving something forward, they have the final vote. But they also have technical advisory committees that are each made up of around maybe 10 people or so. Yeah, it varies. They have a technical advisory committee for structural provisions. They have another one for energy provisions, another one for swimming pools. There's just a host of different breakdowns, the different sections of the code, different specialties. And those advisory committees are made up of experts in the field all over the state. So it's not just people that work for the Florida staff, it's people from industry that are volunteering their time to provide their expertise in those areas. So when a proponent brings in a, a proposed change to the code, these experts will review that change and they'll all give their opinions and it takes multiple meetings to come to a consensus on whether that should be incorporated into the code.
Speaker 3 00:05:55 And then once that committee agrees on what should go into the code that moves on to the building commission and then they have to vote on it. Oh wow. So there's multiple levels of approval and all of this, this entire process is open to the public. So they post things on their website. Anyone, if you follow their website, you can log in and listen to these meetings online, you can listen to the deliberation about the code changes and and so forth. And every time they make a change or a proposed change, they have a public comment period. So they have like a 45 day public comment period after every cycle where they're changing things in the code. So there's a lot of opportunity for the public to provide input if they're not in agreement with what's being proposed. Wow. Very rigorous process.
Speaker 1 00:06:37 Yeah. No wonder it takes three years. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, <laugh>, <laugh>, uh, Jim, anything you wanna add to that?
Speaker 2 00:06:43 No, no, he's, he's nailed that right down. That's basically is the way the process works and there's a lot of arguments back and forth, a lot of different opinions and it's, it comes to a consensus.
Speaker 1 00:06:53 Well, and I guess that's kind of reassuring because you can't just have one lone ranger out there deciding, Hey, I think it needs to be like this. And then it happens. You know, there's a lot of feedback and a lot of input and a lot of expertise involved. So that's comforting actually from somebody who would buy a house. There's not just some random person deciding this. It's a whole team of people and a lot of 'em sound like it's voluntarily done too. So that's amazing. And so how does the building code affect our product approvals? Because I know when you look at an N O A or a Florida product approval document, it always has some reference to the most recent building edition. So for you and your team, Lynn, you have to update all of those.
Speaker 3 00:07:37 That's correct. So we're actually working on that right now. We've got several folks next door here that are working on all these approvals. We are required to, at the very least, review all of our product approvals and determine if there are any changes needed in order to be in compliance with the next version of the code. So whenever there's a code cycle where there aren't a lot of changes, it's just more or less a lot of paperwork that we just have to make sure that everything's up to date. But if there's a code cycle, for instance, if someone is changed the wind speeds or design pressure requirements for products or if there are major changes in the energy code, then we have to go into our product approvals and make sure that we are in compliance. And so that's part of the process. It's interesting because with the approval process, the code isn't officially in its draft format until about June prior to the year where it's approved. So we have like a six month window to update all of our product approvals. Oh wow. <laugh>. And so it can be challenging at times, but
Speaker 1 00:08:35 Be sure to tune in for upcoming episodes to help you understand the fenestration industry, what you need to know when buying windows and doors and other related topics. You can find out more about
[email protected]. You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Right. How many product approvals do you have? Do you know? Uh,
Speaker 3 00:08:57 Boy, you would ask that question.
Speaker 1 00:08:58 I'm sorry, <laugh>, that wasn't on the script. You were unprepared for that one.
Speaker 3 00:09:02 Yeah, I'd say we have hundreds of products approvals that we have to update. And like I mentioned before, we have product approvals for P G T custom Windows and doors here in Venice. WinDor also in Venice, C G I, windows and Doors Echo, and also New South. We also work with all of their product approvals as well. So it's just making sure everything's in line. It's a major undertaking and we do this every three years. So we're getting used to the process every three years. You don't wanna bother us. Right.
Speaker 1 00:09:28 Okay. So don't ask you to come back in and do a podcast between June and December. <laugh>. Got it. I'll make sure we don't do that. And so I know Jim, you've been working with Lynn and, and staying as close to this as you can. What kinds of changes are anticipated for this coming session or addition, I guess would be the better word?
Speaker 2 00:09:45 There's not a whole lot of changes for our industry, but there are a lot of changes for some of the other industries, but I'll let Linac actually take this as well too because he's been directly involved in that with the American Society of Civil Engineers is making a big change.
Speaker 3 00:09:58 Right. So, and that's one of the acronyms we've talked about earlier. A S C E is the American Society of Civil Engineers and they have a standard called A S C seven, which is the minimum design loads for buildings and other structures. So as part of that document, there's a chapter on wind loads. So I'm involved with that committee and working on each edition of that, which is also, that is also a Consensus doc standard. So like all of these testing standard that are included in the building code are in themselves consensus documents. So again, they have experts from around the world working on those documents. So the entire process from the standards through the building codes, everything is never one person. It's always multiple people that have input. So in that document, the 2022 version was recently approved and that is being incorporated into the edition of the Florida Building Codes.
Speaker 3 00:10:45 So the current version is this 2016 version. So there are some changes in the wind speed maps for the greater part of the country, but Florida, for the most part, the wind speed lines stay the same. So there's not a whole lot of significant changes for Florida. There are some tornado provisions that are in there, but mostly for essential facilities like hospitals and fire stations and things like that. And mostly in Florida it's the hurricane winds that govern. So the tornado loads are not near as high as the hurricane loads, so it's really not an issue in Florida, but outside of Florida. So that's a major change, but most of that is just getting people to reference that new standard. Right.
Speaker 1 00:11:22 This is completely off topic. Did the collapse of the condos over in Miami, did that have an impact on any of the changes that are coming?
Speaker 3 00:11:30 Actually there is. There are some provisions that they are working on for required inspections. So at different phases, uh, after a building is so many years old, they have to do inspections, structural inspections to make sure that the building still has integrity. This is something that's been going on in Dayton. Broward counties have already been doing this for, I think it was at every 40 years, a condo inspection where they kind of check the structural systems, make sure everything's compliant. Now they're increasing the intervals between these inspections and it's for more of the state. So that's a pretty big change. One of the other changes, it's not a major change, but there's a provision about bathroom windows where if the exterior cap, if it's a laminated insulated glass unit, the outside pane of glass, in order to be considered safety glazing had to be tempered, had to be fully tempered.
Speaker 3 00:12:16 There's a provision that was in the last code cycle where that didn't have to be the case. As long as you don't have a hazard near that outside pane of glass, it could be an anal piece of glass In this cycle, we've copied those provisions over to the residential code. They were only in the commercial code last cycle. So that's an example of one. It's a not a huge change, but it does affect, when we do small bathroom windows, it's often difficult to temper the glass. So this allows smaller bathroom windows to be built and still be compliant with the code. Aren't
Speaker 2 00:12:45 There are also a couple cases where the codes in the commercial book, which is the building book and the residential book weren't consistent with each other? Yes. And they're bringing them closer together.
Speaker 3 00:12:54 Yes, that's
Speaker 2 00:12:54 Correct. And usually it, it goes with the one that's the most stringent, right?
Speaker 1 00:12:58 Well, yeah, I mean a lot of it is around safety and structure and integrity. I mean if, if it's good enough for a residential building or good enough for commercial, it should be good for the other too. Right. So I mean that just makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:13:09 Sometimes some of those were mistakes made by us when they write the code <laugh> and we didn't catch it <laugh>. Ah yeah.
Speaker 1 00:13:16 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:13:16 That happens. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:13:17 <affirmative>, well, you know, people are people you know, so this will go into effect in early 24. So you said December 31st at midnight or January 1st at midnight?
Speaker 3 00:13:27 Technically that's what they say. Yeah, they say December 31st at midnight that way. And I believe they say that so that they can still call it the 2023 edition. So effectively it's January 1st because I don't think anybody's gonna be working at midnight on that date. So no.
Speaker 2 00:13:41 Yeah, there was a question that came up. One the meetings is that, is midnight considered the first minute of that next day or not? That's how critical some of these things come. They can argue over things like that. But yeah, that's the way it works. So
Speaker 1 00:13:54 How does this affect projects that are already in process? Like if I am submitting my permits like the end of December, I already need to anticipate what that needs to be for a January approval. Like what is that?
Speaker 3 00:14:09 If it's that close to the new code, it would behoove the architect to take a look at that and make sure they're in, because they will know what the requirements are for the next building code. So they should be looking at their plans if they're that close. If you've got something that's been a couple of months before the end of the year that you've submitted your permits, the building departments can approve. You know, if you're under the current code cycle, they can approve those permits. And once you have an approved permit, they can't make you go back and change that for the new building code. It's, you know, it's already been approved for that code cycle. If they would require people to go back and revise these, you'd have a mess. You know, all these permits that have already been approved. So, and it's always up to the individual jurisdictions how they handle that.
Speaker 3 00:14:47 But generally, if you've got an approved permit in hand, if the code changes in the middle of the construction process, they shouldn't be making you go back and changing all your documents and changing your products if you need to. It kind of works the same way. We have approvals, some of our N O A documents have expiration dates on them. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So we get this question a lot. If I submit my permit and this in a way is gonna expire in a month, am I gonna have a problem when I go order my window and install it? Am I gonna fail my inspection? And the answer depends on when you get your permit approved. If your permit is approved with that particular N O A that hasn't expired yet, then it doesn't matter if it expires in the middle of the construction process, that permit says I'm allowed to install that window in this building.
Speaker 3 00:15:29 Ah. And so I always tell people it's not like your milk expiration date where it's all of a sudden doesn't go to go bad on that date. Right? No, it's just telling you that this needs to be re-reviewed and oftentimes it's just a new number and they require us to update. It's just part of the contract that we have with Miami-Dade County that the certifications last for five years. Right. And you have to update that. When people see that expiration date, they get really nervous. Right. And they think that all of a sudden that the product's not approved anymore if you use the one that was the prior expiration date.
Speaker 1 00:15:59 So the key on that is when the permit is approved. Correct. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:16:02 Doesn't that also enter into why a lot of the NOAs and photo product approvals will have more than one, you know, like might say the seventh edition and eighth edition?
Speaker 3 00:16:11 Correct. That's a very good point, Jim, because that's exactly what we're doing right now with our NOAs. When Dade County's gonna review them, they're gonna approve it before the end of the year. So I have to have that N O A in place before the end of the year approved for the eighth edition. But if I get it approved before the end of the year and someone pulls a permit, now the eighth edition is not officially adopted, it's not implemented yet. So I have to put dual years on my certification. I have to say this N O A is approved for the seventh edition 2020 and also approved for the eighth edition 2023. That way I can sell the product right now this year and it will also be good. I don't have to renew it at the end of the year. Again, I don't have to revise it again.
Speaker 1 00:16:51 That's actually smart because if you're like, it takes a while sometimes to go back and forth and you know you're getting the approvals and then, oh, I forgot to put that in there and now I gotta re-submit for my permit. And you know, things like that, you know, it takes time. So it's good to know that it's not like a hard yes or no there. That's good to know. Okay. So what is the best way for our dealers to stay on top of this?
Speaker 2 00:17:12 That would basically be through the, our corporate education center, otherwise known as P G T I University. This is where we offer a conglomerate of different classes and one of them, including basically our Florida Building Code class, we actually offer a two hour Florida building code class that's accepted for continuing education for both architects. And we also have accredited for C I L B, basically for contractors as well. It is building officials. Building officials don't recognize C I L B, but they have a reciprocity with their own association to uh, to accept C I L B. So, uh, it's a no cost charge for them. Them as well also, unless they decided to wanna, they gotta have a lunch and learn <laugh>. Right.
Speaker 1 00:17:54 Well and then it'll still be at no cost because we would still buy them lunch and
Speaker 2 00:17:58 We absorb that cost.
Speaker 1 00:17:59 Yeah, because we just do that because we want people to be informed and we like building those solid relationships with people that spec our products and spec our products and install our products and all of that. So the two of you are in constant communication about updates and what's happening and Jim, you're already working on the revision?
Speaker 2 00:18:16 I'm already working on the revision for the next code cycle and been working with Lynn to making sure that, you know, when I get it done, it'll go through his hands before I send it off to be approved for C E U uh, credits.
Speaker 1 00:18:27 Okay. And those will be scheduled via Zoom probably.
Speaker 2 00:18:30 Obviously we offer 'em once a month via Zoom and then occasionally if there's any, you know, we might be doing 'em at um, uh, conferences or uh, large group sessions. Like we had one today basically for architects we're, we actually did it right here at P G T.
Speaker 1 00:18:44 Yeah. So we'll just try to meet the demand as it arises. Alright. Well I appreciate your time. This has been very informative and I learned a couple things and, uh, I'm sure our listeners will have learned something as well. So thank you for your time. Have an awesome afternoon. Thank you. Thank
Speaker 2 00:18:59 You, Sherry, for having us. Thanks.
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