Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by P G T I University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host. So good afternoon. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and we are doing some code updates. And our topic for today is Energy Star seven, and with us we have Via Telephone is Kevin Auer. And welcome back Kevin.
Speaker 2 00:00:36 Hello. It's good to be back. Thanks.
Speaker 1 00:00:39 It's good to have you. Uh, the last time we spoke we were in person. I was in Phoenix, but you didn't have any trips anytime right now coming back to Venice, so a phone call Will do. And for anybody that may have missed that original episode, can you just give us a brief recap of your role and responsibilities at P G T I?
Speaker 2 00:00:58 Yeah, absolutely. So my role is really focused around Western Windows doors. I'm the vice president of engineering for our, our company brand. And my main focus is product engineering as well as testing and quality department. And then we have a fairly large CAD group that supplies CAD drawings for customer approval or for building unique configurations for our manufacturing floor. And I've been with Western for about two years.
Speaker 1 00:01:26 Okay. And so with that, and because Western obviously you're dealing with Phoenix, you're dealing with California, you're dealing with a lot of the Western states, which are more energy conscious than Florida seems to be <laugh>, you seem to be the person most qualified to talk about this. And so I know the new Energy Star version 7.0 is coming into effect in October, right?
Speaker 2 00:01:52 That's correct. October 23rd.
Speaker 1 00:01:54 Okay. And how often does this get updated?
Speaker 2 00:01:58 It's updated approximately every three years. Sometimes there's a little bit of a delay if there's more research that's been requested. The great thing about the E P A is that they come out with a proposal or maybe, um, multiple proposals over time and then they ask for feedback from the industry. And so it's great to be able to give them feedback, join conference calls, discuss you know, what you picked for the criteria and what's the data behind it and, and have a nice open discussion. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> with them. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer than three years because they may go back and do more research or find that it might, might be too expensive for manufacturers or for consumers to purchase, you know, the options that might meet the criteria. So it's kind of a back and forth scenario.
Speaker 1 00:02:45 Okay. And what is the governing body? The E P A?
Speaker 2 00:02:48 Yeah, the E p A. So the Department of Energy previously had uh, managed Energy Star, but the EPA took it over a few years ago.
Speaker 1 00:02:58 And what, what is E P A? What does that stand for?
Speaker 2 00:03:00 Environmental Protection Agency.
Speaker 1 00:03:02 Ah, okay. 'cause there's so many acronyms, it's really confusing <laugh> if you're not in that space all the time. And so the process is they come up with recommendations and then industry experts weigh in on that and then figure out the feasibility of it and then make adjustments. And so sounds a lot like building codes and things like that.
Speaker 2 00:03:24 That's correct, yeah. It's a lot of back and forth, very similar to building codes.
Speaker 1 00:03:28 Got it. So is Energy Star just a United States thing or is it international or like how far out does this go for us?
Speaker 2 00:03:38 Yeah, there is a US Energy star and there's also a Canadian Energy Star. So the US Energy Star is governed by the epa, the Environmental Protection Agency. And then in Canada they have their own, uh, governmental program. It's somewhat aligns. They work together to make sure that there's not a huge gap between our Northern Zone and then the Southern Canadian zones. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, they have a three zone system. They have very stringent requirements as well, but they try to make that somewhat seamless between the northern zone of the US and then the southern zone for Canada.
Speaker 1 00:04:11 Right. And so as window and door manufacturers, what does a new version of Energy Star mean for us?
Speaker 2 00:04:20 Yeah, it's really interesting. Um, you know, it really depends on the product design. So the E P A has continually preached that they want this to be more aspirational. So previously you would just design your products and if it met Energy Star, great. And it really became a kind of a competitive advantage for your products. So everybody tried to get their products to meet Energy Star and you know, in the past the requirements were fairly easy. You know, low E became more standard. You might have argon added to the windows to meet the requirements, but it wasn't too difficult. But in the last few versions, it's become more and more difficult and less and less products are meeting Energy Star. And so it, it's become more and more of a competitive advantage to meet Energy Star, especially in the replacement window industry. You know, it's, it's great to be able to tell homeowners, Hey we, we can save you energy, you know, we're energy star compliant or our products are energy star compliant and you know, it becomes somewhat of a competitive advantage for your products versus someone else's who may not be energy star compliant.
Speaker 1 00:05:27 And so it's voluntary for businesses mm-hmm. <affirmative> to reach that. But it definitely gives an edge if we can do it.
Speaker 2 00:05:33 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:05:35 Okay. So for Energy Star, is it kind of an all or nothing or are there levels of Energy Star or how does that exactly work?
Speaker 2 00:05:45 It is an all or nothing. So there's a requirement that you have to be at or below. In some cases it might be, you know, for solar heat gain you might need to be above. Yeah, it's an all or nothing meets or doesn't meet.
Speaker 1 00:05:59 Right. And that's within the different zones.
Speaker 2 00:06:02 That's absolutely
Speaker 1 00:06:03 Correct. Right. So zones may have a difference depending on whether they're north or south or Midwest or whatever, but it's kind of an all or nothing. That's
Speaker 2 00:06:12 Correct. Yeah. So there are four zones that make up the entire United States. There's the Northern Zone, which is the, you know, most stringent for U Factor but less stringent for solar heat gain. So U factor is the insulation insulating values for windows and the solar heat gain would be, so lemme rephrase it. Insulation would be you holding heat into your house for U Factor Solar is keeping heat out of your house. So there's those two requirements and they can vary depending on the zone. Um, so you have the Northern zone, north Central, which is you know, kind of the northern central part portion South central and then the Southern zone. Some states have multiple zones that are within their state borders and then other states are only one zone or another.
Speaker 1 00:06:59 Be sure to tune in for upcoming episodes to help you understand the fenestration industry, what you need to know when buying windows and doors and other related topics. You can find out more about
[email protected]. You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Okay. So the variances in the region, not necessarily an Energy Star requirement. So what does Energy Star having a new addition, what does that mean for our dealers and our builders? Or does it matter to them?
Speaker 2 00:07:36 Definitely does matter to our dealers and to our builders. The dealers, you know, especially the ones that are focused on replacement windows, they have to, especially their competing or they have competing brands, they have to figure out, you know, which products are going to meet Energy Star and which ones don't or which options meet and which ones don't. And so they may have some brands that do and some don't or maybe even some Windows within a brand. So for example, a picture window may meet Energy Star and a Casement window may meet, but maybe a single hung or a double hung window won't meet Energy Star. So it gets a little bit more difficult for them to figure that out. So as manufacturers we try to help them, you know, we try to make it clear. So in our quoting software we highlight whether it meets Energy Star and what zones it qualifies for, you know, so we try to make it a little bit easier for those dealers.
Speaker 2 00:08:28 And for builders there are whole Home Energy Star programs or some builders, you know, prefer to specify only Energy Star products, uh, you know, as part of a marketing advantage, but also to make their homes as energy efficient as possible for their customers. And so they may specify windows and doors that only meet Energy Star. And so that's important for us to make sure that if we're selling to that builder today and then the the Energy Star program changes to the new version that we still have products that they can offer for their homes that still mean Energy Star.
Speaker 1 00:09:03 Okay. And so for the homeowners it's more of a desire and not necessarily a requirement, but eventually it saves them money, right?
Speaker 2 00:09:11 It does and in some cases there are also rebates. You know, utility companies may align with Energy Star and offer rebates so that um, you know, you can get a little bit of money back from purchasing your windows similar to you know, appliances and for lighting it really depends on your local utility. So it's always good to check with your utility on that. And of course it does help you save money. One of the things that the EPA goes through when they look at the criteria is they look at how much energy the new criteria would save over a period of time and then they will change the view factor and soil heat gain requirements to try and figure out where that best balance is between cost and savings. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so there's still a good payback for the consumer.
Speaker 1 00:09:58 Right. And so I didn't really write this question out specifically, but what are the significant changes that are going into effect in October?
Speaker 2 00:10:08 Yeah, it's quite significant. You know, as I mentioned there are four zones and so each zone has different changes that they're going through. So it could be U factor and soil heat gain numbers that are both being lowered. It could be just one, it could be just U Factor in one case. And then also in the northern zone they allow for equivalent energy performance numbers. So in other words, you can go a little bit higher with U Factor as long as your solar heating is higher. So if you think about the Northern Zone, it's a little bit different than some of the other zones where you really focus on more heating costs, then you do cooling costs. So in the Southwest where Phoenix is, we're more concerned about cooling costs and so we're really focused on keeping the heat out of our house and less about insulating because we have a short winter winter mm-hmm <affirmative>. But in the northern you really focus on insulating and so you have these trade off values. So if you allow your house to heat up more in the winter, then you can get by with a little bit higher U Factor requirement.
Speaker 1 00:11:07 Right. Awesome. And I did just a smidge of research around the federal tax credit, the inflation act and I was able to find online, so anybody can find this, it used to be a $200 credit back on your taxes for Windows and skylights and up to 500 for doors. Mm-hmm <affirmative> if those products met Energy Star and they've actually changed it in January, so now it's in place for 10 years. So it's not just a one-time thing, it's a continual thing. So you can spread your improvements out over time. So it used to be 30% of the project cost with a lifetime cap of 500 and now it's an annual cap of either 1200 or $2,000 depending on the improvements that you make. So the government is embracing this as well and letting people save a little bit more money on their income tax. So that's definitely something that isn't a nice incentive too. You know, not only are you gonna have a lower electric bill, but you're gonna get a little bit back on your tax bill as well.
Speaker 2 00:12:14 Yeah, absolutely. And that helps cover some of those increased costs for um, energy Star or you know, just improving your energy performance on your windows.
Speaker 1 00:12:23 Yeah, no, that's amazing. And so for homeowners out there that are trying to figure out if now's a good time to replace your old leaky windows, yes it's a good time. <laugh>, this will help you. And if you're in Florida, you've got a sales tax rebate for another year and or a sales tax holiday rather. So there's no sales tax on Windows right now or doors and if they're impact rated, not just regular, but anything that is, you know, to help strengthen and harden your home against hurricanes, but it's just a good move, you know?
Speaker 2 00:12:55 Yeah, absolutely. I think it's great.
Speaker 1 00:12:57 Awesome. And so our triple thin, we'll be able to meet that. I know Bob Keller spoke about that not too long ago on the podcast with me, which will be in our energy view products very soon. And are you guys tapping into that at all?
Speaker 2 00:13:10 Yeah, definitely. I think our market expands just really in, into all four zones. So if you think about Arizona actually has all four energy star zones within our state. Oh wow. Um, California has of the four zones. And so when you look at Western window products or Alans products, you know, the thin triples are going to be a really great addition. The U factor requirements are getting so low that triple glazing is really required for the northern zone. And so it's really gonna be a good thing for us because it'll reduce weight, you know, from a standard triple glazed unit. But also it makes it so that a product that wasn't necessarily designed for triple glazing can now have a triple glazed unit in it, achieve those really low U factors that we need.
Speaker 1 00:13:56 Yeah. And you guys are aluminum but you have the thermally broken, so that's the workaround for that, right?
Speaker 2 00:14:03 Yeah, absolutely. We have a very efficient, what we call performance line and it has the ability to have standard triple glazed units in it, but you know, they're very large and very thick heavy glass. And so by using thin triples we can still get the same performance but at a lot less weight and still it would look the same as any dual glazed unit.
Speaker 1 00:14:25 Right. And just to recap, if anybody missed that, the, so the thin triple is basically has a 0.5 millimeter piece of Corning a T G glass in the middle of two regular pieces of glass. And so 0.5 versus a three millimeter or five millimeter piece of glass is significantly thinner. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so instead of it just being two panes, you're just slipping that one piece of glass right in the middle and not taking up any more thickness. So we're pretty excited about that hitting the market and there's been a lot of buzz about it around here. So I think it's gonna be a game changer for a lot of this industry, honestly.
Speaker 2 00:15:02 Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 00:15:04 Anything else we need to talk about around this topic?
Speaker 2 00:15:06 Um, no, I think that's it.
Speaker 1 00:15:07 Well, I appreciate your time, Kevin, and your expertise and your willingness to record with me today. And you know, we hope this has been helpful to anybody that's interested in knowing more about EnergyStar. And as always, you can reach out to your P G T I rep and you can find out more from them.
Speaker 2 00:15:25 Awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:15:26 All right, thanks Kevin. Have a great afternoon. Alright,
Speaker 2 00:15:29 Thank you. You too.
Speaker 1 00:15:29 Okay, take care. Bye. P G T I University is the customer education team for an entire family of brands. We began with the original Easy Breeze Porch enclosure line then became P G t, America's leading brand of impact resistant windows and doors. We then added C G I C G I C window, Western Window Systems, new South Windows, echo windows, and doors and land, windows and doors. And our latest acquisition Martin garage doors. We create products built to withstand major storms, keeping people safe, secure, and prepared. Our exceptional brands give you the protection you need without compromising design or functionality. P G T I University is here to educate you, our listener, so that you can be a more informed consumer of window and door products.
