Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast brought to you by PGTI University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host.
Good morning. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and we are in a series called windows and doors 301. And today I have the great privilege of sitting with Joe Morazzi. Welcome.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it was a long trek over from the glass plant to get you in here, right?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: But I walked further than you did, I think, this morning.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Yes, you did.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: No, this is right in my backyard.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah. No, this is awesome. So, Jo, we are gonna be talking about insulated glass today, and I'm told that you are the guy to talk about insulated gl and so give us just an introduction like your background, your education, maybe your history, and then your current role and responsibilities.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So I'm originally from West Virginia, so I migrated down to Florida about three years ago. I've been with PGT a little over three years, but I have started out as a chemical engineer. So a little bit interesting path to get here. I've worked in natural gas processing. I've worked in automotive. But then previously I've worked with another window manufacturing company and I did a lot of IG work with them as well. So I have a little bit of experience working with with an east coast northern market as well as kind of the impact heavy Florida southeast market as well. So I got a little bit of experience doing both of those aspects. And I've been doing window manufacturing for about six years now. So August 2018. So it's been interesting seeing both sides of everything and just kind of really getting into the weeds now with a lot of the details and a lot of understanding of the more technical side of everything. And PGT definitely is kind of leading the way in advanced technologies as opposed to more traditional window manufacturing systems.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I love getting over to the glass plant and I know the remodel is almost done or close to being done. I'm going to do a walk through in the next couple of weeks with Jason and his team because we coordinate the tours for our customers. And so I'm excited to see what the new route is going to be and how it's all coming together. But one of the things that's so impressive with our company is that we do make our own glass. I mean, we don't make it raw glass that comes from a float plant process, but we do everything else. So we cut it, we temper it, we Laminate it and we insulate it. And I think it's one of the most fascinating parts of our operation here in Venice. And so one of the things that we pay attention to is that consumers are obviously becoming much more energy conscious. And Energy Star just came out with a new update that's got a lot more stringent requirements. And I recorded an episode last week with some of our code compliance engineers, and we got into the weeds with NFRC and all of that. And with that, that just means more insulated glass packages. And so I know that we use the sealant that goes around that keeps those two panes spaced correctly from each other. That's called tps. And so can you share what this is and how it's applied?
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So TPS is an acronym for thermoplastic spacer. There's a couple different variations of it. The one we use in particular is one of the best ones I know of on the market, if not the best. And essentially it's a warm edge applic process, which essentially means it's heated up to be applied to the glass. And then we use an application robot, it's all automated, to apply that directly onto one of the lights of the glass. And, you know, we heat it up to around 220 degrees Fahrenheit. And then the rope pumps through a pretty heavy duty gear pump. This stuff is pretty viscous, even at high temperatures. And it applies directly on the glass with really high precision and leaves a nice wedge in which it seals, which is another really big benefit of tps, where you don't have a lot of those fourth corner seal failures you'll see with a foam or metal intercept spacer. But from the application process, we are able to get really high precision and we're able to get every spacer size that we need. So on most other traditional or older forms of spacer systems, you'll have different size metal, different size foam rolls, and it does everything from anything the application head can use. So we can use a quarter inch spacer to 3/4 of an inch. On our current application, however, there are different heads we could use that give us a different range as well. So that's one great thing about TPS and how we apply that to the glass.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: Okay. So I guess I didn't realize that the spacing would be different from one window to the next, but I guess that does make sense. Right. If it's a laminated package, it still has to fit in the frame, so the space is less.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: Yes. So typically with our laminated Glass, you know, you'll have a smaller spacer in our non impact, so stuff that's not laminated, it'll have a bigger spacer size, more air space per se. And it depends a lot on the frame of the glass too. So you know, if we have different product portfolio, portfolio such as a picture window versus a single hung double hung, they require a different overall glass thickness. And one of the great things about the lines that we have, and a good thing about TPS in particular is it'll actually adjust down to a 0.1 millimeter thickness to get our overall thickness to the correct specification so we're able to hit that target. Whereas if you had a metal or foam, you're set to a specific spacer size, whereas this one will increase or decrease based on your glass thickness, because glass thickness will change based off the vendor that we purchased from. And typically, typically with the glass they want to go thinner and they have a product range that they are able to meet. So your stack tolerances and everything can be higher or lower. And typically they go thin because obviously they want to save money. So you don't want to spend too much money on giving somebody the same cost of product. So we are able to adjust that range with the tps that you wouldn't get on most of the other different products.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: And I'm trying to remember if this is right or not. We were one of the first companies in the US to offer this, right?
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Probably one of the first. We definitely are a very heavy user of it compared to other companies as well. You know, we have a really good working relationship with our current glass manufacturer Glaston, formerly Bystronic. So we kind of pushed the limits of their equipment as well. You know, we run a 24,7 operation which is not typical of most IG manufacturers. So we definitely were one of the first in the market. We've kind of stepped up. We had one of the first high speed TPS lines North America, if not the first. And we definitely run that equipment really efficiently. And we've added over the years as well.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Right. And so how I've explained it when I give customer tours, because we stand over the vinyl area, the final out area where you can look down from the mezzanine and see all the glass carts and you see this black. And so I've described it as kind of like tar, where it just kind of lays on top of the glass and it fills in all those like itty bitty nooks and crannies that glass has, because glass is Not a solid or liquid. And so that's why it's so successful, because it just kind of melts into that edge, and then it doesn't have that little tiny space where air can get in, and then that causes all that inner condensation, right?
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So tps, again, one of the main benefits of it is it will chemically bond with the glass, and so it's a pure desiccant. So the entire width of the spacer is all desiccant, whereas on a traditional, you know, foam or intercept, you'll have kind of a bead of desiccant. And what desiccant does is it absorbs moisture and, you know, it bonds with the glass, but it also bonds with what we also apply to these units, which is a secondary seal. So the secondary seal we use is silicone, and it'll provide structural support for the window, so that increases the impact resistance for our impact product. But it also just gives it a rigid structure enough to where it, you know, it won't fall apart or it won't pull that spacer. And that's one of the other benefits of that, is it it'll chemically bond with both the glass, glass and the silicone. So it kind of creates one solid structure.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: I think the numbers right now are somewhere around, like, 5 million units and zero failures.
[00:08:14] Speaker B: I think it's higher than that now.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Is it higher?
[00:08:16] Speaker B: I think it might be up to eight. Whoa. Yeah. Or seven or eight. It's somewhere around those ranges because we don't have any seal failures.
[00:08:22] Speaker A: That's amazing.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: And you'll see a lot. And maybe. I know historically from my experience, we were seeing about 2% seal failure rate for a different. Whether, like I said, the metal roll form or the foam spacer. And usually that happens at what we would call the fourth corner or where it close. So you'll start an application either manual or if it was an automated piece of equipment, and then you have to patch that corner. You don't see that with this, because the way it starts and closes on the robot application, it seals itself and bonds to itself as well.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: So it's great for that. And you just don't see that argon loss. You don't see the moisture intrusion. You know, I just moved into a home last week, and first thing I notice when I get in there, it's a metal spacer, and the seal failed, and they just built the home. So we. We don't have that issue with our TPS process.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: Right.
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So you get to have a warranty claim or you can just get a new window? Yep.
Nice. So we don't want to like trash other ceiling systems, but I think we've kind of touched on what the benefits are over a regular system. But can we just do like a high level. What are the different systems that are out there?
[00:09:54] Speaker B: So the ones that I'm aware of that I've used in the past have been. Do we want to say specific names or just the types?
[00:10:01] Speaker A: Just the types.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: Okay. So Metal Intercept is basically. It comes in like a flat bar. It's not something we use here at pgt, but it's a flat bar that goes through a roll. Former. That makes it kind of. At least what I'm familiar with is a U channel. There's some other ones out there as well. Then it applies both a butyl, which will be your primary seal, and a desiccant on the inside of it. And that would be your moisture absorption properties that you're getting in the window. And then you either cartwheel it or there's a couple different methods to get that in the shape of the IG that you're trying to make. Typically you don't use those for architectural shapes. You'll use what we call a foam spacer. And there's a couple different methods for those. We use a foam spacer here. It's a little bit of an older technology. Our production lines are automated. Can't run some of the complex shapes that we offer. Circles, things like that. There's, you know, there's really a couple odd shapes like quadrofoils that are very rare. And then we do offer DXFs, which are basically images that we can cut and make into any kind of shape. You want those able to be run on the lines as of yet. But we have the ability now with the new line, we just got to run 95% of our shapes on our line. And the real big hitters have always been able to be made on our automated production lines. So the ability of TPS kind of comes in all packages. You get everything out of it that you need. And actually one of the demonstrations that I was shown when we first got out, the first line I saw that was a TPS production line is they show like robot applicator making a sun with a Smiley face. Because it can do any sort of shape in any sort of radius, as long as it's got an ability to stay on the production line. The round ones will fall off and the other ones with sharp edges will stick down into the rollers and things like that.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: That's pretty amazing. I know. It's so fun to see all the automation and robotics and even just on the regular production lines over at AP1, watching the robotic cleaning heads on the vinyl line, it's mind blowing to me. I love it. Okay, so can we talk for just a second about the equipment that we use that applies the tps?
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah, so we use a Glaston line. They're one of kind of the largest manufacturers of automated IG equipment specifically for TPS as well. They're a German company, formerly Bystronic. So some of the equipment we still have has Biostronic name on it, but they've merged with Glaston and Glaston is a larger company. They make a lot of the heat treating equipment we have as well. So our lamination equipment and our timbering equipment, it's all from the same company. And the IG lines are set up very similar. It really doesn't matter what kind of process you have. You know, you always have a washer. You have your application area, whether that be sandwiching with our case. It's the automated robot. We do have an automated press robot. So that's what assembles the IG and applies the OR puts the argon in the window if that's what the customer wants. And then we have a secondary seal that applies the silicone. So the applicator, it's pretty straightforward in terms of complexity, I guess. You know, you have a gear pump that heats up the equipment, that pumps it over to the application head. There it applies directly onto the glass and it gets very close. So you get a very good seal on that application side. It's. I think we set it, when we do the calibration on the distance, it's like 0.15 millimeters. So it's very precise in terms of its application. And there's a lot of things we can change to make some adjustments to that equipment to get it to really dial into what we need to. And the press robot is excellent in terms of the fact that it's all automated. You know, some of the other processes, processes I've seen, you still have to manually cap things like that. This one's all automated. It's all down one production line as well. So you put it on at the front, you offload it at the back. No handling in between those steps. And then the secondary sealer puts on that secondary coat that has a depth of 3, 16 of an inch, at least on our product. Other products can be a little deeper depending on what your sight line is. And we're able to kind of get a good secondary seal there where we're really giving it that strong structural support.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: So how many of those lines do we have now?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: We have four here in Venice, we have one down in echoglass, and then one in our triple diamond facility that we're installing right now.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Wow. And any idea what the price tag.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: Is on those 3 million I think was the latest one we got. Now granted, the new one we purchased was for some of our new advanced technologies that we're launching. So there was a little bit more equipment needed for that. So we have a second press. We have a rotation station, which that's the first rotation station we've had. And it's got a little bit of couple different things. There's some R and D cost to that as well. So I think typically the one we bought for echo was 2.3 million. And that would be more like our older lines that we have here.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: So just a couple dollars involved.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: That's amazing. And so can we talk about volumes at all? Like what are we looking at in terms of daily or weekly production?
[00:14:48] Speaker B: So we've been improving our production capabilities, especially with the new line we've purchased recently. We have demonstrated up to 4,800 units per day of IGs, and that includes our manual line as well. But our high speed line that we have runs about 2,000 units per day. Our two older IG lines that we got back 2015, 2016, depending on what that product portfolio is, it depends. A lot of the larger glass we run for picture windows, doors is a little bit slower. It's more difficult to handle. We do have lift assists that help with that. But you know, we can get depending on again the size 600 to 1300. Like it's a pretty big range.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: And a lot of that's demand driven as well. So sometimes we don't need to run 2,000 units on our high speed line, but we try to. The demand has been there to do that. But typically they're running full tilt 24, seven, just stopping for PMs. They're not stopping at all. And there is a lot of time taken for PMs on those lines. But 4800, we've hit a couple of times this year, and we're still not staffed up fully on that new line as well. So we're trying to bring overtime help in to help with getting that line up and running. I think we can hit up to five at some point, if not even more than that. We're still trying to do some optimization and looking at our process.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: But that's an ongoing thing, though, isn't it?
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Always, always CI work involved with engineering as part of what we have to do, so. Right, yep.
[00:16:09] Speaker A: And so I know that not all window and door manufacturing handles their own glass processing, but we do. And so what do you think the benefit for our customers is by keeping that process in house?
[00:16:21] Speaker B: So the best way to put it is we're able to serve our customers more effectively. One of the big benefits of that, you know, glass is easy to break. You know, even if it's impact scratches. Sometimes when you put it in the frame, you damage the frame, and it's very difficult to get that stuff out, Especially with our product here in Florida. It's not a simple silicone or glazing tape. It's. You're really chemically bonding that glass to the frame, and it's not easy to take out. It's messy. There's a lot of chances for damage. Being able to have that process here, we can get that turned around in 18 hours. At the maximum time, 18 to 24. Typically, you know, if you're ordering outsourcing glass, if you're just ordering from another vendor, that's going to be at least a day or two that you're not getting that glass. You have to have it delivered. Unless you have that plant like ours right next to the building, which is not the case for most places. So that's one of the major benefits, is just the ability for us to get our stuff to the customer in an efficient timeframe. The other benefit is you kind of have your own control on your own quality. Whereas, you know, if you have a spill or something, you can catch it. Whereas if you have a quality spill and you find it two days after they ran it, maybe they ran two more. And there's always the possibility of a chance of something like that happening where you're able to kind of control your own stuff in house. And then cost is a big one, cost to customer. You know, when you're outsourcing, there's going to be an upcharge on that glass. I don't know what the exact number we have if we outsource is, but there's a big benefit to our customer end user of keeping that cost down because we're able to produce it ourselves. Really, you're just paying for the material, the cost of labor and whatever other costs we throw in there. Right.
[00:18:01] Speaker A: And the millions of dollars of equipment.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean the equipment cost in the grand scheme actually is low.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Is it?
[00:18:08] Speaker B: It is.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: The amount of time it would take to pay back, let's say our high speed line, a day would be less than a month. It's that fast. At least that's what costs they've told me.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Okay. You know, we have to look in the fact that basically the way we perceive things is we have to get that line up and running because it's very important to number one, get our delivery, meet our delivery dates and that we are able to get good quality glass and just be able to get that glass turned around and have everything, all their stuff for our customer.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Nice. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
[00:18:41] Speaker B: I guess one of the big things from like a PGT perspective, coming from a different background, I was working with a lot of equipment that was older 90s. You know, somebody asked, first project I worked window manufacturing world, somebody asked if I could had a floppy disk to back that up.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: So and you're like, wait, what's a floppy disk?
[00:18:57] Speaker B: I knew what a floppy disk was, but I'm right on that timeframe of age where that could have been a question. But you know, we've invested a lot here at PGT in ensuring that we have the best quality line to make the best quality product. The glass we make is not cheap, you know, laminated process, laminated glass, a lot of large glass. And if we didn't have good control or good lines, we would not be making a very good quality product. So we've kept innovating with the products and the processes we've had. And I think, you know, that was one of the big draws for me to come to PGT was just looking at these Glaston lines. I was like working with what I had before, which was all manual. There's 15 people on a production line. You know, we can run these lines. If you wanted to be efficient on your manpower, you can run them with three people. For making a lot of product you need more than that. But they're very fascinating production lines. And just the technology to me, you know, is amazing compared to if you look at what we've had in the past. You know, if you look at older homes, they have single strength windows.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah, like my house right now. I can't wait for my new windows that are coming in a few weeks.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And one of the big things, I guess maybe we haven't talked about much was kind of the new Energy Star ratings and the Argonne and things like that. And that's one of the other really big benefits of TPS is argon retention. So as the codes change and we become more energy conscious, our energy ratings from Windows is going to become more and more important. And TPS is excellent for energy rating argon retention. Argon will eventually go out of Windows at some point, and then you'll feel that heat convection through the window over time. You know, there's glass technology such as Loewi that helps with that. Argonne makes a big difference in the size of the airspace and the glass thickness as well. So we're already kind of jumped ahead of that kind of change in policy that's happened, but we're kind of jumping into that now and looking at even more potential for that policy change and improving energy ratings. I read something yesterday where it was something like 41% of energy US cost comes from building heat and cooling.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's the Department of Energy and Energy Star. So we just said a whole podcast about this. Energy Star is a voluntary program. Energy codes are required, but some states are actually adopting Energy Star as a requirement, Like Colorado just passed some legislation about that. So it's going to become more and more stringent, especially for the northern climate. Not necessarily so much for Florida, but we have to be able to meet that demand. And we're a national company now, so that's amazing. That's one of the things I love about this company, too, is that we're not afraid of the new technology. We're not afraid to invest back into what's going to make things better for the end user. So. Well, Joe, this has been a very informative conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time away from all of the production that you have on your plate today. And I look forward to getting a new tour soon.
[00:21:48] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[00:21:49] Speaker A: All right, thanks, Joe. Have a great day.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: All right, bye.
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