Speaker 1 00:00:04 Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by P G T I University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host.
Speaker 0 00:00:16 Good morning.
Speaker 1 00:00:17 We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and today we are gonna be speaking with Melissa Maxey from Moat Marine Laboratory here in Sarasota. So Melissa, I'm gonna just let you introduce yourself with your credentials and what your role and responsibilities are at Moat. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:00:35 I am a senior biologist and I'm the conservation manager for the Sea Turtle Conservation and Research program at Moat. And it's one of the research programs there. I basically am in charge of making sure that our nesting surveys for sea turtle nests operate smoothly every year and all that. So <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:00:53 Okay. And so a senior biologist, what is your education? What is your background?
Speaker 2 00:00:57 I have a Bachelor's in marine science and I have a master's in marine biology.
Speaker 1 00:01:03 Awesome. One of the things I get to do in my spare time, which is really minuscule now compared to what other volunteers do, but I am a Sea Turtle patrol volunteer. I'm non permitted so I just go out and walk the beach and flag the activities and report it in. And every now and then I get to save a little baby sea turtle that's wandered off in the wrong direction. So it's an amazing experience and it's so near and dear to my heart. I wish I could do more, but I know that I have to keep things in balance so I have a little bit of experience with that. And so I know that the Moat program operates under the Florida Fish and Wildlife
Speaker 2 00:01:39 Conservation Commission.
Speaker 1 00:01:40 Conservation Commission. I know it's a big long, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:01:42 Fwc <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:01:43 Fwc. And so how long has that program been connected to Moat? Well, the
Speaker 2 00:01:48 Program at Moat has been in existence since 1982. I believe F W C has been involved the whole time. They kind of, the way the legalities work is because sea turtles are federally endangered. Part of the Endangered Species Act is the US government saying, okay, states you have control over making sure that people are not doing bad things to these endangered species. So the state of Florida has that responsibility to permit people appropriately and reprimand people appropriately for interactions with all species. And so F W C has been in that position, I believe, since the start of the Endangered Species Act, which was in the late seventies. And
Speaker 1 00:02:31 So how long have you been with Moat?
Speaker 2 00:02:33 I have been there almost eight years. I started in 2015 on staff, but in college was a college intern with the program. So a few years prior to that I was here as well.
Speaker 1 00:02:45 Oh nice. So one of the things, and this is why this is relevant, I mean not just so we can sit here and talk about how much we love sea turtles. We as a door and window manufacturer, we educate both our dealer network and homeowners because this is a public podcast and anybody can find it and hopefully do some research on their own before they launch into a new project or renovation or new build or whatever. But we have products all over the country. We have brands in California, we have brands in Miami, we have brands now in Salt Lake City and then also in Phoenix. There's no sea turtles in Phoenix, but visible light transmittance of glass in our products is a big deal. And that's vt visible transmittance and it needs to be at a certain level when buildings are facing the beach. And so currently, at least in our area, it's 0.45 and like other codes, local municipalities can pile on top of that. They can't make it less stringent, but they can make it more stringent. And so can you talk about the results of having these regulations in place?
Speaker 2 00:03:52 Sure. Well one of the things that people don't really realize with turtles at least is that as hatchlings and as a adult females looking to navigate on the beach, first of all, their eyes are not really developed for seeing out of the water. They're really good at seeing underwater. So it's kind of like the opposite of ours. If you open your eyes underwater, it's kind of blurry, but you can still kind of see what's going on. But one of the cues that they rely on for finding the ocean from the beach is the difference between the horizons as far as brightnesses go. So if you think about it, for the vast majority of their evolution and existence on earth, there haven't been buildings or artificial lights anywhere on the land. So they have developed to know that the darker horizon is land and the brighter shimmery water horizon is the ocean.
Speaker 2 00:04:41 So their instincts tell them <laugh> to travel towards that brighter horizon or away from the darker horizon to find their way either to the water initially or back to the water after they've nested. And a lot of people don't think about that with turtles, but it's not really that uncommon of a thing in nature. If you turn on your porch light at night, you get all the moss and bugs that fly around it and are gravitated towards that light. It's kind of the same concept just in a different animal on a different scale. They're not going there just 'cause they're attracted to it. They're going there to try to find their way to the ocean. So if you take that back and you look at transmittance through windows, we have extended our daylights by having artificial lights inside. And so when we have our lights on inside, if there's no tent on the windows that can turn into the brighter horizon for these animals. And so they will travel towards that thinking they're gonna get to the ocean. So they often will end up in parking lots or swimming pools or somewhere not the ocean. And so by having this tent applied to a window, it can help to reduce that brightness which can make that horizon darker and make the contrast to the ocean better. So ideally we're reducing the number of what we call disorientation of these turtles orienting improperly towards the inland instead of the ocean.
Speaker 1 00:06:05 And I know like the outside lights all have to be orange or red. They have to change all of those outside lights because obviously people wanna feel safe and they wanna be able to find their way where they're going, but they don't necessarily need white light, they just need some kind of light so the red light doesn't interfere with them.
Speaker 2 00:06:23 They are less sensitive to red lights. And there's a threshold with that too about it has to be longer than, I think it's like 540 ish nanometers, the spectrum of the light. And so that has shown through studies that the turtles are much less sensitive to that. So having those lights in places where you do need to see like stairways and parking lots and you know, safety places helps by changing that out.
Speaker 1 00:06:46 And so what happens if there are no regulations? Like if people just completely disregard or you know, a lot of times like one of the beaches that I patrol is siesta key and it's kind of a C shaped. So if there are condos at the end of the sea that have lights on, then the turtles aren't going necessarily towards a parking lot. They're still on the beach, but they're just going a really long ways. And so like how long can they live outside of, you know, between the time they hatch until they hit the water? Like is it a day, is it half a day? I mean I know birds and other predators can come into play with that too. So that's a big question. Sorry, that's not super clear.
Speaker 2 00:07:29 <laugh>. It's all good. I'll start with the last part of that. It's kind of less about a timeline and more about all the things they might interact with in the process. And so like I talked about with their vision is very well adapted for the ocean. Most of their entire body is much better at swimming than it is at crawling and that sort of thing. So it's much more cumbersome, especially as an adult that weighs 300 pounds to crawl across the sand than it is to swim in the ocean where they have the buoyancy helping them out. So it's a matter of energy and just kind of not tiring out, especially as hatchlings. 'cause they're relying just on their yolk sack that they've had since they were laid two months prior to that. And in the sun they can dry out and basically dehydrate if they're out in the hot sun.
Speaker 2 00:08:17 So usually if they're not to the ocean before daylight, once the sun comes out it gets really hot in Florida in the summer on the beach and the turtles feel that and it's, you know, you don't think of it as much with animals that are native to the area. Like shouldn't they be better adapted for the hot sun? But if you think about it, they're better adapted for being in the water, which has much less temperature, fluxx and all that and they can drink or whatever they need to do. Whereas if they're just crawling around a beach, it's like the equivalent of being like plopped in the Sahara and saying, okay, crawl
Speaker 1 00:08:48 Home <laugh>. Yeah, good luck.
Speaker 2 00:08:49 Yeah. And then you already mentioned the birds and we have lots of raccoons in our area, which once they learn the taste of turtles, they get very attracted to it. And so they'll seek them out too. So anything that can get turtle the hatchlings into the water as soon as possible can help reduce those on beach threats. And then they have their ocean threats, which is the whole other <laugh> right ball game. But they're at least can swim away from it better than they can crawl.
Speaker 1 00:09:14 And we didn't mess around with that. Like people don't, I mean other than pollution and and littering and things like that, I mean we do have some impact on what their ocean environment is like, but we definitely have had an impact on their land and nesting environments. The
Speaker 2 00:09:32 Beach is where our habitats cross, if you think of like a Venn diagram of we live on land and they live in the ocean and we live and recreate on the beach and they try to just nest on the beach. And so that's where it becomes most important and where more people can have an impact because fewer people go out on boats every day that live on the beach or we'll go, you know, just walking down the beach or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:09:56 Be sure to tune in for upcoming episodes to help you understand the fenestration industry, what you need to know when buying windows and doors and other related topics. You can find out more about
[email protected]. You can also find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. So what would you say to a homeowner who wants to enjoy their, I don't know, $5 million condo that they just bought, but now the glass is a little darker when they look out through it. And I've heard from people in those positions are like, you know, they care more about the turtles than they do about the people. I've heard that comment. And so what would be your response to somebody who is coming from that kind of attitude?
Speaker 2 00:10:40 Yeah, I mean I don't have the luxury of living on the beach and seeing that view every day. So I understand like you're paying for that view. And I get it. These animals, however, have been around for millions of years and they are for being nice. They're not very smart. They have tiny brains and they don't use the same like cognitive thinking, critical analysis as we do very instinct driven. So it takes a very long time for them to adapt and change. They have really long generations. So even things that slowly change just based on, oh well this speech is inhabitable anymore. So they're not nesting there that takes 30, 40 years for them to learn genetically, if that makes sense. So most of them that are coming back to nest are coming back to a place where there were no lights when they were born on these beaches and now suddenly it's Christmas tree across there.
Speaker 2 00:11:35 And so there's no one to teach them that that's not where they should go. And so we have this responsibility to acknowledge that we're not the most important beings on the earth. I know a lot of people may think that or see us as not animals, but we are part of the ecosystem. And what we can do to mitigate our impacts is always great. Not just for turtles but for trees, but for you know, every sort of animal out there in plant. And to be I guess a little snarky, <laugh>, the alternative to tenting your windows is putting curtains up to block it that way. And you can see better through a tinted window than you can through a curtain. So I think that if you're really wanting, the view is the better alternative and it's easier. You don't have to remember to put your tint on at night. Whereas you do have to remember to close your curtains. So I mean a little snarky, but <laugh>,
Speaker 1 00:12:25 I think my response has been they were here first. Yeah. And so, I mean to respect nature, I mean it's one of the reasons that we love living here is because it is so beautiful and everybody I feel like needs to do their little
Speaker 2 00:12:37 Part. And Florida is very unique when it comes to sea turtles, especially loggerheads, the southeast Atlantic population of loggerheads, which includes we're Florida or the Northeast Atlantic, which is the southeast US, is the largest population of loggerheads in the world. Oh wow. And Florida comprises 90% of that. So you come to Florida and you see all these hurdles and you're like, why do I have to protect them? You know, I've got this great view and there's thousands of nests out there, but this is where they nest. This is their main habitat. And so we as Floridians have a huge responsibility to preserving that habitat for them because this is their only habitat really.
Speaker 1 00:13:18 And so this is the big question and this is why we're doing this because we want everybody to, I mean, not everyone's gonna love sea turtles the way you and I do. Yeah. <laugh>. But I think everyone appreciates the beauty and the nature and and all of that. So for those who don't live beachside who maybe are just going out to the beach with their family or enjoying a picnic or enjoying a nice run or whatever, what steps can they take to help see turtles during nesting season, which is early May through the end of October, right?
Speaker 2 00:13:49 Yes. Legally it's May 1st through October 31st. Our turtles don't read the calendar and they show up in April. So we like to encourage people to start being turtle friendly in April. And if you're on the east coast, it starts even earlier 'cause Leatherbacks there. So their seasoned has actually already started. We've had the first nest and it's still February now is really recording.
Speaker 1 00:14:10 Yes. <laugh>. So, oh that's cool.
Speaker 2 00:14:12 Um, so the simple thing that I like to tell people is to leave the beach as natural as possible better than you found it. You know, you hear that with national parks and all that sort of thing. Pick up your trash
Speaker 1 00:14:23 Right, leave no trace,
Speaker 2 00:14:24 Leave no trace, fill in your holes, knock down your sandcastles. Which don't seem like big things, but hatchlings are the size of the palm of your hand. And even crab holes can become problems for them. So we don't have to go fill in every crab hole, but if we can fill in the giant hole that people dig, have fun during the day. Turtles don't use the beach during the day. Typically. There are some weirdos out there that'll come up during the day and there's one species that doesn't really nest much in Florida that is a daytime master. But for the most part our turtles here use the beach at night. And so have a great time during the day. Go out, have your picnic, build your sandcastle, bury your dad in the sand, whatever you wanna do. But before you leave, knock down that sandcastle, fill in your hole, pick up all your trash, encourage the people around you to do the same and then leave the beach at sunset. Watch the sunset and leave and let the turtles have it for the rest of the night. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:15:17 If people are out on the beach after hours and they run across either a nest hatching or a mama laying turtles, what should they do?
Speaker 2 00:15:25 The best thing to do is to stay behind them. It's much easier to see that when it's a adult stay behind their periphery so they can't really see you and just watch from a distance, stay quiet, keep your lights off, let your eyes adjust to the darkness rather than trying to turn any lights on. 'cause honestly you can see better that way than you can with a big flashlight and you can watch and enjoy it. We don't like to encourage people to go seeking it because they are so startle able and they will abandon their nesting attempt if something startles them. And like I said, they're not really designed for crawling on sand. So it's a huge energy thing for them. So we don't wanna discourage them from being of the water too much. But yeah, if you see it, that's awesome. Watch it, enjoy it, let it happen.
Speaker 2 00:16:14 Don't touch, don't take flash photography, don't interfere. Just enjoy the moment. If you see hatchlings or adults I guess going the wrong direction, and it kind of depends where you are. You wanna find your local turtle group and see if there's something you can do. But they are endangered species, they're protected species. So it is illegal to just go picking up turtles that you see unless you are properly trained and permitted. Which is why I recommend reaching out to your local group first. And they may have someone on call to come get them or the hatchling, sometimes they'll figure it out, they'll go the wrong way and then they'll end up behind a bush that blocks whatever light it was and they say, oh wait, that's the ocean. And then they turn towards it, personifying them a little bit <laugh>. Right, right.
Speaker 1 00:16:58 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:58 But some of them do figure it out. And so unless you know the right thing to do, it's better to wait and let someone who is trained to step in.
Speaker 1 00:17:06 Right. And I know even me as a non permitted volunteer, I mean the amount of training Yes, <laugh> and the amount of knowledge that goes into my little tiny role in this. I mean I have an 80 page handbook that I have to carry with me all the time. And I'm thankful because I can't necessarily remember every single scenario and I only patrol as needed. I'm a substitute now. So I'm not even out there every week. But I'm thankful that I don't have to rely on my own memory for that and that no matter what the situation is, 'cause there can be many different kinds of situations that happen. I can look it up, I know where I can, I can pull up my book and I can look it up and then know what the right thing is to do. And Moat has been such an amazing organization in terms of how they train and handle the volunteers and how they communicate with the scheduling and communicate with everything. It's really a privilege to to be there. And it feels like I don't do enough because I can only serve so often when there are people who are out there, you know, every single day or five days a week, volunteering their time. And so it's always inspirational and I have enjoyed all of the staff that I've had privilege to interact with. So Yeah. That's
Speaker 2 00:18:16 Great to hear
Speaker 1 00:18:17 <laugh>. Yeah, no, it really is. It's a great organization. I've volunteered for a lot of different places over the years and Mode is definitely has our act together.
Speaker 2 00:18:24 And I mean, to go the other way, we rely so heavily on our volunteers that I run the program. There are four full-time year round staff and then we bring in one to three seasonal staff and the rest are all volunteer, whether they're college interns or like you local residents that commit to being here for and doing this all summer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we cover 35 miles of beach and have to patrol it every day and check every nest every day. So the six of us couldn't do it on our own. And so we put so much effort into you guys because you're so important in our data collection and conservation of these species locally.
Speaker 1 00:19:07 Do you know how many people serve, how many volunteers you have in this space?
Speaker 2 00:19:10 We have roughly 300.
Speaker 1 00:19:12 Wow. It
Speaker 2 00:19:13 Fluctuates a little bit year to year. Um, 'cause some people can't do it anymore. And Sure. We have a waiting list that's years long. Um, people will wait for, you know, two, three years before us to have enough spots for them sometimes, so. Oh wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:19:26 Well I'm not, I'm not letting go of my spot. <laugh> Yes, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:19:29 Yeah. I I'm
Speaker 1 00:19:29 Gonna keep going. That's
Speaker 2 00:19:30 Why they have to wait so long. Yeah. Because usually once people get in they're like, oh yeah, I'm not giving this up. And so it's just people who move or Sure. Get injured or whatever that end up dropping off
Speaker 1 00:19:40 And it's a, it's a great experience just to start your day that way and to be out there and just to have more knowledge about sea turtles. And I had no idea that was gonna come into play when I came to work for a window and door manufacturer. But it's kind of cool, like yeah, <laugh>, I have pictures and some video that I took of a disorientation and we actually use it in our education classes to talk about that. Like, this is what they look like, they're tiny and they, you know, it's 25 years before they can reproduce and one out of a thousand lives to see that age. And so when you give those numbers out to people, it does change things a little bit. And then they go, oh
Speaker 2 00:20:15 Yeah, <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:20:16 Oh, that's why we help save the turtles.
Speaker 2 00:20:19 Yeah. And you know, everyone's always, we will get calls from some people like, oh, we found all these hatchlings in our pool, isn't that great? And we're like, no,
Speaker 1 00:20:28 <laugh>, no, it's not great.
Speaker 2 00:20:30 It's
Speaker 1 00:20:30 Not great. That's not where they need to be.
Speaker 2 00:20:33 Like I'm great that you got to see them and experience that. But what we would really like is for them to go the right direction and us actually never to see them. Just let them, you know, do nature <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:20:43 Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Anything else we need to talk about? I, I don't think so. I mean, I think we've covered it. Yeah. Awesome. My, my take home is usually turn off your lights and I feel like we've covered that pretty well. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And we will be having an episode, um, probably to follow this one with our code compliance engineers, at least Lynn Miller has offered to come in and he has done a lot of education himself around total codes and what that looks like and how we can continue to straddle that space between providing what nature needs and also satisfying the needs of our customer base. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, you know, it's that line that we all try to balance between. And so I know he expressed interest in coming in and I'm sure I'll be talking with him soon. But anyway, I really appreciate your time today, Melissa.
Speaker 1 00:21:31 Thank you so much for coming in. Of course. Anytime. It was great to meet you. Yeah, you too. All right, take care. P G T I University is the customer education team for an entire family of brands. We began with the original Easy Breeze, porch enclosure line then became P G t, America's leading brand of impact resistant windows and doors. We then added C G I C G I C window, Western Windows systems, new South Windows, echo windows and doors, and lend windows and doors. And our latest acquisition Martin garage doors. We create products built to withstand major storms, keeping people safe, secure, and prepared. Our exceptional brands give you the protection you need without compromising design or functionality. P G T I University is here to educate you, our listener, so that you can be a more informed consumer of window and door products.
