Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by Mitre Brands University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sheri Conner and I am your host.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: In the case of new products, when we're developing them, a lot of times our scope and specification for those products involves a component of thermal.
So we're going to set goals where we think the future is going.
So we want to make sure we're not just designing products for today's title 24, but also designing for tomorrow's title 24 and maybe even 10 or 20 years down the road.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: So, good afternoon. We are here on the Clear Impact podcast and I'm so grateful we have Kevin Vilhauer in the studio today. Welcome back.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Hello. Thank you.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so fun to just see how the timing works out on things because I think I emailed you a couple weeks ago and said, hey, would love to record an episode with you about Title 24. And you were like, cool, I'm going to be in town. I was like, perfect. So here you are.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Yeah, the timing works out great. We were here for some other meetings and so it's nice to be able to see you in person and just talk.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm so glad to have you here in the new studio and so much better than over the phone. Although often we have to resort to that, which is totally fine, especially when we're across the country.
So for those that may not be familiar with you or have heard previous episodes, give us a little bit of a recap of your background and your current role and responsibilities.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Sure. Kevin Vilhauer. My position is Vice President of Product Engineering. I work with all the brands within Mitre Brands. I do sit in Phoenix, so I spend a lot of time with the Western Architectural Openings Group, but I work very closely with Milgard, Michigan pgt, talk a lot with Anlin, all the brands and work with them.
The product engineering team really handles a lot of the kind of day to day operations, focused product line changes, smaller design projects, and then we have this whole separate NPD group that focuses on bigger platform designs.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: And NPD is New product Development.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: New product development. Sorry.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Okay. No, that's okay. I've come to appreciate abbreviations, but not everybody knows what those are.
And there's a lot of new products happening across the board and that means retiring some other ones as well. Usually.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Hopefully.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: Yeah. We don't need a portfolio of thousands of products. We just need the right ones for the right market.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And we really want to create an engineering team, a design engineering team that doesn't have silos. We're willing to work with each other. If the new product team needs resources, we have resources that can help them and vice versa. So we really want to have one large design engineering team that can all work together.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the brilliance of having a massive organization, is that you can really learn and gain from each other. So. Yeah, yeah. No, that's amazing. And so one of the things I've leaned on you for this year is keeping up to speed with the title 24, which is the California Energy Code requirements.
And we have some content on the Mitre Brands University site to help people keep up with that. And so I wanted to just kind of talk about that for a little bit. Can you share about the changes that happened earlier this year?
[00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Title 24.
Every three years they update the standards, and it doesn't always mean that the changes include windows and doors. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes it's insulation or solar. A few versions ago, they rolled out a net zero version. And so that really didn't have anything to do with windows, but it was really making whole homes energy efficient so that they can be retrofitted with solar and really meet that net zero energy. So in other words, they generate as much energy as they use. And so you, in theory, you'd have zero energy bill. Of course, that's not always in practice, but that's the thought behind it. This last cycle, they did make changes to windows and doors and really raised the bar for window and door performance.
They lowered the U factor, they lowered the solar heat gain, and we can talk a little bit about that, what that means. But they really made it so that the house itself is saving more energy than what it's using. So they're going now another level below the net zero.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Oh, wow, that's intense.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: It is. Hopefully it saves a lot of money and we don't have to build more power plants and generate more electricity.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So tell us just a high level. What is U factor and what is solar heat gain?
[00:04:39] Speaker B: Yeah, U factor is really a window term or window door term. A lot of people think about insulation as R value.
So insulation is shielding or keeping the heat inside of your home. U factor is doing the same thing. So it's not allowing heat to escape through your windows and doors into the outside. You know, just simple math. It's one divided by the R value. So U factors are pretty small numbers, they're decimals, but it allows you to compare one product to another.
So for example, if you have a double hung window from one brand and a double hung window from another brand, you can look at a U factor and know which one is better. Lower is always better in the case of U factor.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: Okay, so like a golf score.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Okay, I heard.
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Not my golf score, but some people's golf scores.
[00:05:26] Speaker A: I've heard it compared to that. And so then for solar heat gain coefficient, that's sh.
And what is that?
[00:05:33] Speaker B: So solar heat gain coefficient is keeping the heat outside of your home. So it's not allowing solar heat gain into your home. So if you think about when you're sitting by your windows and the sun is shining through that window and you're starting to get warm, that's solar heat gain radiating through the window. So in the case of California, in most zones, and we can talk a little bit about zones, but in most zones, lower is better.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:56] Speaker B: When you think about areas in the north, so outside of California, generally, but say Montana or areas where it's much colder, you would want a higher solar heat gain so that you don't have to heat your house as much.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: So in one case you're saving air conditioning expenses and another case you're saving heating expenses.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Okay. So those regulations really vary from region to region.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: They do, yeah. So California has many zones. 16 zones.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: They really vary by climate.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Okay. I was just gonna say, why so many? I mean, I know California is a massive state. It is, but it's because they have so much variation in the geography and the climate. Cause it goes so far south and so far north, and then you've got mountains and then deserts and valleys and all kinds of things.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: That's exactly right. So you do have some areas in California where heating is more important than cooling. So if you think about the very northern part of California or up in the mountains, Lake Tahoe, for example, it doesn't get as hot in the summer. They're less likely to use air conditioning. Very.
They're more likely to be using their heater. Even in the summer early mornings, it might be cool enough that their furnace might kick on. And so in that case, you'd want more heat maintained inside the house. So that's where you would want probably a little bit higher solar heat gain. Now the flip side of that is you don't want it too high because now it's going to be uncomfortable in the house when it is warm.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So you have to really balance it out.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: It's all about comfort.
[00:07:23] Speaker A: Yeah, no, for sure. Well, I'm like Goldilocks myself. I don't like to Be too hot or too cold.
[00:07:27] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: I was doing a little bit of research prepping for this.
So California Zone 15, which is the very southern part of California where the Coachella Desert is, they're actually requiring an SHGC of 0.20.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Which is the lowest, I think, that's required.
And so how do we help our customers navigate these kinds of specifics?
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Yeah, the great thing is that the glass manufacturers are really keeping up with what these requirements are, not just in California, but across the United States.
So a lot of these glass manufacturers that we purchase glass from have different low E types that can handle different climates. So they see these codes coming. California works on the new Title 24 requirements three years in advance. So as soon as one issues, they're already starting to work on the next version. And many times window and door companies, as well as glass companies participate in the discussions. So they know well in advance that things are coming. But in addition, they know the general direction of energy savings, and so they're always working on the next product.
And so the nice thing is, you know, many of the manufacturers have glass coatings that can handle these low solar heat gains.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Okay. And so a low E is a coating that goes on the outside of the glass that helps the sun's energy radiate back away from the structure. Right?
[00:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah. So if you think about an insulated glass unit, you have two lights of glass generally, and so you would have one light of glass on the outside of the house, one towards the interior. Low E is typically on what we call surface two. So it's not on the very outside of the glass. It's actually in between the two glass panes.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: And so that will actually reflect heat in or heat out, depending on U factor or solar heat gain.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah. There's so much to learn about all of that. I just know I put lowy on my windows, and it helps keep my air conditioning costs down. Yeah, that's what I know.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: That's good. That's good.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So customers really have to dial in where that job is. So if they're covering a massive area, like, what is good for this little town might not be good for the next one over, depending on how closely their customer bases are. So they really have to be on top of knowing where everything is.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Yes. And what a lot of people don't understand is even in the desert in California, the high desert, for example, it's still going to get cold in the winter, especially in the mornings. And so you do have to still take that into account. So you have to look at what the code requirements are, but you also have to think, again about comfort and what's going to be best for the customer.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: We are sharing our expertise around all topics relating to the window and door industry. Whether you are a customer selling our products or a homeowner doing research, the Clear Impact podcast provides helpful content that makes an impact. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
Right. And so are we directly involved with the code changes in Title 24? Do we have representatives in those conversations?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: We are. So not only does our company participate, but we also work with organizations as well as individuals that consult with us that will actually meet with the title 24 group on a regular basis and talk about window requirements.
And it's a balance for the state of California as well. They will run simulations to figure out how much energy is saved and then also how much cost is added to the home.
They'll have builders participating. They have code officials participating. So there's kind of a wide range of groups that are participating to all weigh in on their portion of it. So, for example, if California decides that they want to lower the U factor from 0.27, where it is now, to a 0.25, that could require. Now, instead of dual glazing, now, you need three lights of glass, you need triple glazing, and then that adds more cost to the windows and doors, which in turn adds cost to the homes.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: Yeah, you always have to balance that out, right?
[00:11:38] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: You have to design with what's practical, too.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Like, if people can't afford to build houses because the cost has gone up so much to meet the energy requirements, then.
Then you don't have more people.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
[00:11:54] Speaker A: Then it slows the whole industry down.
So those codes apply to anybody that's doing replacement as well as new build.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: Anytime you have a permit, you have to install windows that are per code.
[00:12:07] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Same in Florida.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. I'm so grateful that you guys, the engineering teams get involved in that and that they're not just blindly making up regulations and codes for us to then have to scramble and figure out that it's all a collaborative process. But how on the design and engineering side of things, how do we make sure that our products can meet those requirements?
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah, there's really two areas. So we have existing products, and we have to make sure that they can meet the codes. In some cases, they can't. And so those are the products that we're always looking at. How can we enhance them in some way. Maybe it's a small design change or maybe it's time to sunset that product and design a new product that can replace it with existing products. A lot of times we can change out the glass operation to get better results. So one example might be that we might go from a dual glaze to a triple glaze solution and now we get lower U factor or we might be able to change the low E type and get lower soil heat gain coefficients so we can look at those existing products.
In the case of new products, when we're developing them, a lot of times our scope and specification for those products involves a component of thermal. So we're going to set goals where we think the future is going.
We want to make sure we're not just designing products for today's title 24, but also designing for tomorrow's title 24 and maybe even 10 or 20 years down the road. Windows and doors have a very long product cycle life. And so we're not just redesigning products every two or three years. We're designing products that might last 20 or 30 years. And so we want to make sure that they're really future proofed.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's amazing. The engineering behind all of this was such a surprise to me. When I first came into the industry, I had no idea about the regulations or zoning or heating and all of these different components that go into it. So when people are out buying windows and doors, maybe for the first time in the last 20 years, they're in for a surprise. Like, wait, what?
[00:14:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: There's so much complexity to it because of regulations and because of improvements in the technology, especially around glass and the thermal improvements, like we said.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: So I wanted to just ask you, I know you sit in Phoenix, what are your thoughts about the new name and new logo for Western?
[00:14:28] Speaker B: I love it. So I.
Everybody has a different path when they first see the logo, the name change. So Western architectural openings, I think they have a different reaction and they always seem to come around to the same conclusion that it's. I don't know if I want to say it's more of a grown up version of Western.
[00:14:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: But in the past, if you looked at the culture, it was all about fun and providing a good product. But it was really about kind of this experience. We're looking at Western architectural openings from a different perspective. We're looking at how can we better serve the customer. And it's really not about just us having fun at the company and really enjoying what we're doing, but actually really providing a product that the customer really cares about and really focusing on the experience.
When you look at the logo and just the font that they use, you instantly get this feeling of it being more upscale. And you know, I love the story that was shared from the branding experts. The way that they walked us through, it made a lot of sense to us. It's like, yes, we want the customer to have a good experience.
We want them to feel like the money that they're spending on these products is well worth the product that they're receiving.
[00:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you didn't get rid of the curly slide though, did you?
[00:15:37] Speaker B: No, absolutely. We still have the slide. There's still a lot of fun. And honestly, it is a great company and a great culture to work with. We have such a collaborative environment.
So it's not only a fun place to visit and to look at, but it's also a really great culture where everybody wants to help each other out. And honestly, everybody really wants the product to be the best. And so we scrutinize the designs, you know, whether it's the current designs or new designs, we make sure that it's easy to manufacture. It's got all the features that sales wants or at least anything we can design that accommodates them. And it's also a product that's going to last.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I remember being there, you know, a few years ago and there's a wall of fame of like people who can afford anything.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Like the budget is not the consideration when it comes to a five million dollar house. Or I mean, maybe it is. It's just a huge budget. Right. So if you want a fancy giant sliding glass door for your house because you are overlooking San Francisco Bay, then you should have a really nice door that is going to work and be seamless and give you this expansive view. So there's photos of like celebrities and people like that in the Western line. So when I see the logo, I think it really suits the brand to have that more sophisticated, mature look.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: So yeah, that's probably a better way to say it than grown up.
[00:17:02] Speaker A: Well, yeah, no, I know what you meant. I know what you meant. But it is like that and Western's been around a long time. So I'm glad that the front part of the name didn't change because that would be hard to wrap your brain around. Western architectural openings isn't that different than Western window systems? As long as the Western part is still there.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: That's right. Yeah. That's the recognizable part. When the branding Experts and the consultants and everybody that were involved talked to different groups across the United States. That's what really stood out. And they recognized that the western portion, that name Nina, still remains, that it was recognizable. The architectural openings really elevates the brand and makes it really more in line with the luxury type of brand that you see in other commodities and goods.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's awesome. All right, well, I think we're ready for our last question. I've been asking this for a lot of people, and this is probably one of the harder questions for people to answer. And you can have more than one, but I would love to know if you have a favorite or two or three, what is your favorite Miter brands DNA statement?
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Oh, I love them. I've read through all of them and honestly, I can associate with maybe all of them or at least most of them. I can definitely associate. They're personal to me. In some cases, they're how I live and how I work. So probably my favorite one is we listen twice as much as we talk. I tend to be the quiet person that's in the conference room and really thinking about as we're meeting. I don't want to bring up something that everybody's talking about. I don't want a me too statement. So I'm thinking about what's a good question and how can I participate and really add value. And so when I think about that statement, I really think about the opportunity as an engineer or as our engineering teams to really listen and hear what the customer's saying. And it's not just outside customers, it's inside customers as well. So whether it's the sales team or the service team or manufacturing, we want to make sure we're listening so that we're not just, yeah, yeah, I hear you, and just go off and do your own thing. You know, when you think about the role of a design engineer, it's not just sitting at a computer designing products. It's really going out, doing market research, it's going to visit the dealers, it's going to visit builders and really listening to what they like about current products, what they don't like, any service issues they have, quality issues, features we're missing, products we don't have today that we really need to have so that they can fulfill the whole order with our brands rather than going to some other brand to get one window or door or one thing that we don't sell.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: And so it's really making sure that as a person and as a team, we're listening so that we're not just doing our own thing. We need to make sure that we're in lockstep with our customer.
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. Well, that's what I love about the podcast is I get to listen and I get to learn and get to understand by having these conversations, you know, so it is important.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's how we can apply all of these DNA points to our life and to our work.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: That's excellent. All right, well, this has been a great conversation, Kevin. Thank you for making time. I know you had a full agenda being out here this week, and. Sorry it wasn't cooler.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: No, that's okay. I'm used to the heat.
[00:20:02] Speaker A: Sorry about the humidity.
At least it rained a little bit earlier in the week, so I don't know if you caught any of that. But anyway, I appreciate your extra expertise and your time and your willingness to sit down with me today, and kudos to your team. You guys are doing some great things, and I'm excited to see what's coming up next.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Thank you, Sherry. It was my pleasure.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: All right, take good care.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: The Clear Impact podcast is brought to you by Mitre Brands University. We are a part of Mitre Brands, a family of leading window and door brands united by our passion for quality and relentless pursuit of 100%. At Mitre Brands, our common purpose is to deliver value by manufacturing the finest products, services, and customer experience every day, everywhere. Our window and door brands deliver regionalized expertise, products and services, all backed by a national company.
Mitre Brands University is here to educate you, our listener, so that you can be a more informed consumer of window and door products.
