Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast brought to you by PGTI University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sherry Connor and I am your host.
Good morning. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast and we are doing a series called windows and doors 301. And today's topic is field water testing. And I'm in studio today with William Knight and Lynn Miller. Welcome.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Thanks. Good to be here again.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks for coming back in. Lynn and William, welcome. This is your first time in the studio?
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: And so before we dive into our questions today, I would love for you guys just to do a brief introduction of yourselves, your background, your experience, and your current roles and responsibilities. So, William, we'll start with you.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Okay. I've been with PGT since 2005.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Going on my 19th year in November, I started in manufacturing. I made Winguard sliding glass doors. I did that for four years.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: So when you say Winguard sliding glass doors, is that the vinyl or the aluminum? Winguard. Okay. Aluminum.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: It was aluminum back then.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: I did that for four years. Then I was requested to fill out an application for field service, which I did. I did that for 10 years. During the course of that, I met up with the test lab and field water testing on quite a few jobs. And then four years ago, I made the switch to field water test. And it was just me and Steve Salazar who basically started our field water test program here at pgt. And I've been doing that ever since. Currently, I have three guys underneath me.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Me and my team are responsible for field water testing or witnessing as well. There's a lot of third party agencies out there that do testing and we like to be on site when they're testing our product to make sure things are performed correctly. And we gather the information that's attained during those tests. We also are sort of a legal liaison. Our attorneys contact us a lot to do inspections where we write up thorough reports for them so they have all the information that they need as well.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Okay. So that sounds like it keeps you busy.
I know it was. We had to reschedule this a couple of times because you were unavailable. So I'm glad that you were able to make time to be in studio today. And Lynn, welcome back. Tell us for anybody that may not have heard any of your previous episodes, tell us a little bit about you.
[00:02:30] Speaker C: Sure. I am the manager of our code compliance department here at PGT and I've been with PGT for 14 years and I basically am responsible for our testing and certifications. Of all of our products. We're also heavily involved in building code and standards development. So we do a lot of traveling and actually working with other window manufacturers developing testing standards and so forth.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: So awesome. Well, it's a great privilege to have such experience and knowledge and wisdom in this room. I feel so privileged to be able to talk to people who know what they're talking about. And so we're just going to start with the high level basics. What is field water testing?
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Sure. So our field water testing, it's basically a special type of water infiltration testing that we do on windows and doors that are installed in a building. So we do water testing in the laboratory to qualify all of our products. But once they're installed, depending on the type of project that they're installed on, oftentimes they'll request or require some field water testing to validate that the windows have been installed and performed properly.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: And so when do we do this and for whom?
[00:03:36] Speaker B: We do this for our dealers when requested. We usually work with builders as well. A lot of time they can't get in touch with their dealer and they contact PGT directly. Especially if any water testing third party testing is happening so that we can be present. It's generally required on multi story and commercial projects as well as some residential to verify the fenestration products are able to meet the water infiltration resistance requirements of the building and test report specifications. These requirements are often written into the contract between our dealer installer and the building GC or owner.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: So it's something that like, hey, before we sign off on this, we want to make sure that the product is installed properly.
[00:04:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: And that there's not going to be a leak on the fifth floor that can create all kinds of havoc for the floors underneath it.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:04:28] Speaker A: That's just smart. And so what does this entail? Like what does this look like because you're out on a job site. Right. Is it's primarily new construction?
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Primarily.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Or like remodeling.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: They do do it on remodels, but not as often.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Only if it's a like a commercial type building, they will have water testing. Generally it's like 5% of the building.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: So what does it look like when you're saying, okay, I'm going to do a field water test today, what does that look like?
[00:04:53] Speaker B: So we do AMA 502 testing. Chamber testing. So there's a chamber that's put up on the inside of the structure that creates a negative vacuum and that is per design pressure of the window. You get a 1/3 reduction of laboratory tests for field. All the things that can happen that aren't exactly 100% in the field, installation wise. Then there is water applied to the outside with a spray rack, a calibrated spray rack.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: And the tests are run for. There's two ways of doing it. You can do a 15 minute straight static test, which is generally for picture windows or fixed windows. Then there's a cyclic test, which is what we use mostly, and that's for any operable. And that consists of a five minute vacuum, a one minute downtime for four cycles.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: So I'm just trying to envision this. So you're out on a job site. Let's say it's a five story condo or hotel or whatever. So you've got a contraption on the inside on a specific window. And then you've got to figure out how to put something on the outside. So are you like up on cranes or scaffolding or.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: It depends. Some things are on balconies. That's a pretty easy setup. Other things are. Yes. Down the sheer wall of the building.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Which sometimes it's a lift or we just hang it off of the roof. If there's a way to attach it and run water from the roof, we'll drop it down with ropes. A swing stage, kind of swing stage as well. Swing stage. It can be strapped to swing stage and.
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Okay. So no fear of heights going on in your team.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't really have that.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: Okay. Because I'm just trying to figure out like, okay, I've got stuff on the outside, stuff on the inside. All right, that helps me. And so then do you test multiple spaces, multiple products throughout the job site?
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Generally you want to test one of each.
So if you have doors, you'd want to test one of each of those doors at least. And windows, if you have a single hung, and then you have single hungs mulled, you'd want to test each of those conditions as well. Or fixed windows. At least one of each. We also perform AMA 501 diagnostic tests. So if there is water, we figure out where it's coming from. And that's done with a calibrated Monarch nozzle. It's calibrated at 30 to 35 psi. And that way you do a smaller section, you do it at a minute per foot is how you apply the water.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: That way you can work your way up the window and figure out where the water's coming in, get it fixed.
[00:07:13] Speaker A: We are sharing our expertise around all topics relating to the window indoor industry. Whether you are a customer selling our products or a homeowner doing research, the Clear Impact podcast provides helpful content that makes an impact. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
Yeah. Before everything's finished. And people. People are living there.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Nice. Okay. So, Lynn, do you have anything you want to add to what William just answered about, like, the AMA stuff? Because you're involved in AMA, right?
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: So Will mentioned AMA 502, which is a specification that they use for the field water testing. And he mentioned also that there's a reduction on the pressure that the product is tested to. And the reason for that is because, as he mentioned, there's a lot of these windows that we're testing are five or six stories up, exposed to winds, conditions that aren't really experienced in the lab. The lab is controlled environment. There isn't a lot of environmental winds blowing on the product. And also, the installation is very particular in the laboratory. It's not exactly the same conditions that you have in the field. So AMA has recognized that because of those reasons, that the actual testing to verify a product should be reduced to account for that.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Okay. And so is there a big difference between the 501 and the 502?
[00:08:28] Speaker C: So the 502 is a test that's for newly installed fenestration products. So it's more of a validation, if you will, of the certified water test pressures.
[00:08:37] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: All right. And that's to validate that we meet those requirements. The 501 test is more of a forensic test.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:43] Speaker C: So if they say, okay, we failed the 502 test, so now we want to find out, somewhere on this product, there's water leaking, and we don't know where it is, so they really drill down into it, and it's just to determine where that water leak is so that it can be addressed.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Right. Because sometimes it's the product and sometimes it's the installation.
[00:09:01] Speaker C: That's correct.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: So we got to know where our responsibility stops and starts and where the installation stops and starts.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:09] Speaker C: And there are times where we may. If we suspect that it is an installation issue, we may mask off the product and run the test. And that will reveal if there's any water coming in. If the product is completely masked off, it's clearly coming from the installation somewhere. Or sometimes they'll do the reverse. They'll mask off the installation and want to just focus on the product. So there's multiple ways to take a bite out of the apple, I guess.
[00:09:32] Speaker A: Well, in either way, we want to find it.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: We want to figure it out so we can fix it.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Or not that. Either way, we want it to be repaired. Whether it's on the product or the installation, we still want it to be. Right.
[00:09:44] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:09:44] Speaker A: Nice. So is this common practice across the industry, across manufacturers? Does like, does everybody do this? Like, is it required? Like you're saying it's required in terms of a contract between a GC or a builder and whoever they purchase the windows through. But is it a requirement, like according to building code or is it just within the contract?
[00:10:06] Speaker C: It's not a building code issue per se. It's generally, as Will mentioned, on multi story commercial and residential applications. Just, you know, because, you know, an owner could have hundreds of windows on this project and they want to make sure that they're not going to have any issues. So oftentimes that'll be written into the specifications for the project. The building code does not require field water testing.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: It requires the lab water testing and the products are rated for a water test pressure. Also for single family residents, you typically don't go out and do jobs on one and two family dwellings. And so like the majority of our products are installed into those applications. They don't have someone coming out and doing field water testing on those. So you would most often see it on the multi story buildings. And this is not just for our company, but other fenestration manufacturers as well. They install into the same types of buildings, so it's also required for them as well.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Sure. So is there a fee that we charge for this?
[00:11:00] Speaker B: We do not charge a fee for three tests.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: If we determine that the product is solid and holding and there is an installation issue, we will come out and provide one more test free of charge for the dealer and installer to make sure that they've remedied their situation. After that, if there's still a situation with an installation issue, it is a $2,000 charge currently.
[00:11:25] Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Because you've got a serious amount of time and equipment and investment and risk, you know, to perform these. Especially if you're hanging off of a roof or something.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: Yeah. And also a lot of these projects have a third party water test company that's coming in and doing the testing. So the benefit that we have with Will's team is that we can come out prior to their test and make sure that everything's been installed properly. They can check for potential issues before the official test begins. So that's a benefit that we have.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: With Having their test. We do a lot of that.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:55] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. To get out ahead of it. And so how does somebody go about getting this scheduled?
[00:12:02] Speaker B: We're in the proconnect system under field service.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:05] Speaker B: So any of our dealers can request a water test or witnessing of a water test just by turning in a normal service request.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Okay. And they need to allow for, I would imagine, a little bit of a lead time, right?
[00:12:17] Speaker B: Yes. The minimum is a week. I like to have two weeks. Generally, they will contact me either by phone or by email first and I will get the case number as soon as they have it and I can usher along the work order process.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Got it.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: And get them on the schedule.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Because everything has to be done in a timely fashion because that's holding up the rest of the project.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Yes, a lot of times it is.
[00:12:38] Speaker A: And then are the inspectors out there too? Building inspectors, are they part of that process?
[00:12:43] Speaker B: Generally building inspectors aren't.
[00:12:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: But usually whoever they have on the project that they've hired as an engineering company will be there. And then you generally have. The builder will have someone there, a superintendent, and then the installer will be present. Sometimes our dealers will be present. It just depends on the situation.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: Or maybe an owner's representative.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Or an owner's representative. Either.
[00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you've got a little work on the scheduling. Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: There's a lot of parties involved.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, you know, the grand question, which is how does this benefit our dealers?
[00:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, all the products have to go through the laboratory water test. So this is a benefit to our dealers on multi story projects in that we can be assured that if we pass a field water test, not only has that product passed in the lab, but it's also been verified out in the field. So it gives our customers a little bit additional assurance that it's going to perform the way we tested it.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: Awesome. Any ideas of like how often or how many buildings you're going out and visiting in a month or a week or a year? Like any rough ideas?
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Generally in a week, we've probably been to five or six locations.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Okay. So it's about a full day at every location and depending on where they are. Right. Because what is your scope?
[00:13:59] Speaker B: Well, currently, like I said, there are four of us. I have myself and Brian Cruz on this coast and then on the other coast I have Harold Anacona and Adrian Simpson.
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: But we take care of water testing wherever it is. This week we had a tropical storm come in, but we had it scheduled for Harold to be up in South Carolina, which got canceled, but we do the Panhandle. We've been out to Texas. We go wherever we're needed.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: Wow. So just responsible for PGT brand or all PGT brands. Okay. So CGI and Windor and all of it. Okay. Wow. So, yeah. So you're busy.
Well, I don't want to keep you any further. I'm sure you have work to do. Is there anything else we need to add to this conversation?
[00:14:40] Speaker C: Oh, I think we've pretty much covered it all.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: Okay. Well, this was fun. I learned something today that I did not know before, and that's always the goal. And hopefully our customer groups have learned something, too.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:14:51] Speaker A: All right. Thank you.
[00:14:52] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:14:52] Speaker C: Thanks for having us.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Have a great day.
The Clear Impact podcast is brought to you by PGTI University. We are a part of Mitre Brands, a family of leading window and door brands united by our passion for quality and relentless pursuit of 100%. One of the missions of Mitre Brands is to unite and deliver the finest customer experience possible across the nation. Our window indoor brands deliver regionalized expertise and products. Backed by a national company, PGTI University is here to educate you, our listener, so that you can be a more informed consumer of window indoor products.
It.
