Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome to the Clear Impact Podcast, brought to you by Mitre Brands University. Thanks for joining us today. My name is Sheri Conner and I am your host.
All right, good morning. We are here on the Clear Impact Podcast, and we are in a series called windows and doors 101. And this is really for newbies, which everyone's a newbie at one point or another. Or if you're a homeowner and you're trying to figure out what you actually need, when you're gonna drop a significant amount of money on a new window and door package for your home. And so today we are speaking with Patrick Jamison. Welcome.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Ah, thank you very much. Good morning.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Good morning. So we're gonna be talking about energy performance and glass doors tints, and as the senior specialist of dealer customer education, you know a lot about this stuff. So give us a little brief overview of your qualifications here.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, no problem. So, yep, I started back in 2001 and started exactly doing what folks with this podcast is doing right now is learning. And I remember going into a new department, consumer affairs, and for six months, every day, I had to go ask somebody a new question because there's just so much around, just fenestration. And then you get in the glass, you start getting the details. It can be very overwhelming at times. And I've had a lot of questions. I've had a lot of people help me along the way, and now I'm able to take that information and pass it along. But offering classes to a variety of customers all over, whether it's webinars, if it's in person, just trying to educate them on the different reasons, the pros and cons of tins energy, Turtle Co building codes, products, et cetera.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: Nice. And so we want to talk about glass tint. So I know, like, you can get glass tint for your car, you can get film that goes on windows afterwards. How does glass tint work on our products?
[00:02:10] Speaker A: It can work a variety of ways. It could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing, and it depends on where you live. It could be a good thing or a bad thing. And that's the fun part about windows and all these different variables. Variables. Because it's like building a computer. You add certain things, you take certain things out, it performs differently. So for us here in Florida, in a warm climate, depending on the product, depend on the glass makeup. I know it's kind of a vague statement, but depending on so many different things, it could make your windows more energy efficient or it could be the opposite, and make them less energy efficient. Sometimes your darker tints will absorb more heat, and it's going to do the opposite and it's going to track that sun or that heat a lot more. And your energy ratings start to climb up. If they go up, they're not as energy efficient. You want them to be a low number, lower the better, kind of like golf. So some of your tints will give you better energy performances, but not necessarily all the time. And that's where I try to explain to our customers that have a quoting system. They can see the energy numbers if they add in gray. If they add in bronze, green, blue, they will see those numbers start to fluctuate up or down.
[00:03:22] Speaker B: Okay, and so what are the different energy values?
[00:03:25] Speaker A: So one of the most important ones that we have here in Florida, we go by is shgc, your solar heat gain coefficient. That's measuring how much of that nasty, like, heat is coming through the glass. If anybody's ever stood in front of like an old Florida window, an awning window, jealousy window, they've probably felt the heat just beating on their arm, their neck, or maybe your car, the side windows don't have a tint and you're driving down I75 and the sun's beating in and you could just feel the heat on your jeans. That's that radiant heat that's coming in. The tint could help that. Again, it all depends on the product. We'll talk about low ease later. But solar heat gain coefficient, you want a low number, lower the better here in Florida. But if you lived up in, say, Wisconsin, Minnesota, you want that free heat during the wintertime. So yeah, you want a high number, a high SHGC number. So depending on where you live, it's going to be a big factor.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: So if you're in California or Arizona or Texas, any of those southern states, you also are after protecting your house from that solar heat gain.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Correct. You want a low number. And to meet energy star, they're going to require a low SHGC number.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Okay, and then isn't there like a U value? Right.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: You're right. U factor.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: U factor.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: And that measures how well the product insulates, how well it keeps the heat on the inside. Where would you be to keep the heat on the inside? Be more up north. You got your heaters, your furnaces working during the wintertime.
[00:04:56] Speaker B: And does glass tint affect that at all?
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Very little.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: I mean, it will, but not as much as, like, the spacer, like the insulated glass, the type of frame it is. If it's wood, vinyl, fiberglass, aluminum. If it's just straight aluminum, a lot of that energy is going to transfer from inside to outside. You're going to lose a lot of that energy. You're going to see a lot of condensation during different times of the year. But if you go with a vinyl frame, you're going to have a great U factor rating. And it's just like shgc. Lower the number, the better, more energy efficient it is.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Okay, so we don't really worry too much about that in the southern climate.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Not as much. And that's where, like, in some of our classes, we have different climate zones. Climate zone one for retrofits doesn't require a U factor rating. If you're in climate zone two, then yes, they do require U factor rating. But again, every area can have their own, like, codes. They can go above the building code, they can't go below the building code, but they can go above it. And so we'll see where some areas do require a bigger U factor rating than others.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: All right, that makes sense. And so let's say I order windows and they're just a clear tint. And then I realize, like, oh, I really should have ordered them with tint. Can I just put a film on afterwards to reduce some of that intensity that's coming in?
[00:06:18] Speaker A: I mean, absolutely. But will avoid the warranty. Absolutely. If it has a stress crack, I should say so. There's lots of customers that do that. They put these aftermarket films on their glass, and sometimes they think it's going to be more energy efficient. It's kind of like putting a pair of sunglasses on. It's a comfort thing. You know, that's why we tint our cars. It's more of a comfort thing. Don't get me wrong. There's tints out there for cars that will reflect some of that energy or that heat away, but the aftermarket film will not always make it more energy efficient. And if you have an air spacer that could build up more heat than what we designed and tested that product to, and you could see a stress crack. And if you get a stress crack and you had that film on it, you voided the warranty. And unfortunately, you would be responsible to get that piece of glass replaced.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: And so we talked in a previous episode about design pressure and how you might have to have a different product depending on where it is on your home. Like, if it's towards the end, it has to meet a heavier design pressure. So how does glass tint play into.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: That, well, the thickness of the glass can, yeah, definitely help with design pressure. But when you start talking tints and different thicknesses of glass, the pigment, the color will be darker the thicker the glass. You go, and there's been cases out there where somebody's looked and they're like, wait a minute, how come you have two different blues or two different greens? And we have woods, one green, we have one blue. But if you compare a 8th inch thickness pane of glass of blue next to a quarter inch pane of glass that's blue, the quarter inch is going to look much bluer. It's going to look darker because of the pigment. That could affect the energy. I wouldn't be able to really say 100% right now at this moment. It will affect it. I believe it's going to be up to the glass makeup, to the product. But I would go to the quoting system. I would go to a dealer and ask them, hey, I'm thinking about doing this. Is this gonna be a big energy difference for me?
[00:08:25] Speaker B: We are sharing our expertise around all topics relating to the window and door industry. Whether you are a customer selling our products or a homeowner doing research, the Clear Impact podcast provides helpful content that makes an impact. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts.
Right. So if you one thickness of glass in one location and then the rest of the house didn't require that, that one window might not match the rest.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:08:54] Speaker B: Ah, okay. So that's good to know.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: Hopefully that one window's on a wall all by itself where nobody sees that compared to or next to another window. But if they're next to another window that has that thinner glass, you most likely will see a difference.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Okay. And so the solution for that is just to upgrade the glass in the one that isn't necessarily requiring it so that it matches.
[00:09:18] Speaker A: It matches a lot better. And there's lots of customers that do that just to make sure that it all matches well.
[00:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah, you want it to match.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: My brother's got ocd and yeah, that would drive him nuts.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of us have a little of that. And so this is a topic near and dear to my heart. I want to talk about turtle glass. And so I know this isn't necessarily for everyone, it's not a national thing, but we offer a tint that meets turtle code. So let's talk about that Turtle code.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Perfect. A lot of folks that are new to this industry that come to Florida, they're like, what do you mean, turtle code? You mean like squirrel Code and chipmunk code. It's like, no, there's such thing as a. The turtle code is not in the Florida building code books, but it's enforced by your local buildings department. If you have a house on a coastal area where your windows, your doors face the beach, where it faces an area that sea turtles can come up and lay eggs, you are required to meet turtle code. You're not going to have these little etchings of turtles on your glass. It's a glass tint or a glass makeup that gives you a low VT rating, a visible transmitting light rating. And typically it's 0.45 or less. So only 45% of natural light able to shine through or less is going to be allowed to meet turtle code. We have a variety of combinations and tints to meet that turtle code rating, but that's where turtle code comes in. And I know I usually ask you to step in on classes because you are a volunteer, and I forget exactly how long you've been doing it for.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: I just renewed my volunteer application, and so I think seven years now.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: I've been a volunteer for the local turtle patrol. And so the reason for that and for all lighting regulations. So not every place has to meet anything with their windows, but there are a lot of ordinances for exterior lighting on beaches and parking lots and the exterior side of buildings. Because turtles go towards the brightest light, which in an area that doesn't have population, the turtles will go to the horizon. There's usually light in the horizon area, whether it's stars or moon or whatever, but they are biological design, heading towards the water because they're sea turtles. And if you've got light in the parking lot and they're little tiny things, you know, they get confused, and then they go off in the wrong direction and then they don't survive. And turtles are endangered. There's several different species, but all of them are facing some kind of endangerment. So especially in Florida, it's the number one location for loggerheads nesting in the world. And so it's such an honor and a privilege to be able to see this, like so many people don't get to. But that's why Florida has that and other areas have some restrictions as well, as I understand.
[00:12:11] Speaker A: Yep, you're right. It's just incredible. And it is really for a good thing. I know you'll always have folks out there that get a little grumpy. It's like, what do you mean? I got to have this darker tint of glass on My doors and my windows that face the beach. I want to see that natural. And no, it's for a good thing. But, yeah, the turtles will get disoriented. They will go up the beach and not survive. And I think I've heard you in class talk about, like, one out of a thousand live to see maturity, 25 years of age, and that's one of a thousand. That's hard, right?
[00:12:44] Speaker B: Well, they're part of the food chain, and so that's part of the reason that they have a low number, and that's why they nest in such large numbers. But, you know, if half of the nests don't hatch or hatch and then don't go back out into the ocean, then that number's even smaller. So I appreciate that so much, and that was a fun thing to learn when I started here. Like, wait, I know about turtles.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Yep. And I love having you come in class and talking about turtles.
[00:13:07] Speaker B: It is fun. Okay, so you, you mentioned something earlier about tints that you can put on your car windows that will help reflect the heat. And so that's available for houses, too, right?
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Yep. And we have that, which is what we call low E, low emissivity. It's a coating, typically a soft coating, that is applied to the glass before we get it at PGT at our glass plants. The soft coating helps reflect a lot of that heat away. So it's going to be inside your panes of glass, insulated glass, or laminated glass, or both. It's going to be inside because the weather elements, the oils on your fingers, will actually damage it, and it won't perform. And you can see that it's bad. But this coating has a light hue, we call it. It's not a tint, but it's a hue. Depending on the type of lowy, you could see maybe a light green yellowish hue. It might be a little bit darker yellow green hue. And then there's some that's like a blue gray kind of tint to it. They all serve different purposes. I would say the most common one that we see is what we call energy shield max. That's three thin metallic coatings on the glass. And that's really going to help drive that SHGC rating that heat coming through your glass almost by 80%. So instead of 80% of the heat coming through your clear pane of glass, having a laminated, insulated, clear with energy shield max, low E, you're probably figuring about only 22%, 21% of that heat coming through. Now it's a Drastic change. And that's what you really need and you're going to really want here in Florida is to have some kind of high performance low E to help with that because that will help with your electricity bill. It'll help with the AC or help keeping your house much cooler during the summertime.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: And that's not something you can put on afterwards because it's in between.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: Correct?
[00:15:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: And again, like, yeah, I said something about car tents. Car tents have come a long way. But again, we. And our warranty mentioned that aftermarket films will void the warranty. We've never tested those films on our glass, so I can't say that. Oh yeah, they'll make it more energy efficient. You're taking a chance, right? I would not take that chance.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I agreed. So are there code requirements around LOE and shgc? Do people have to meet those numbers?
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yes. So you have to meet certain SHGC numbers. If you are in like Climate Zone one, Climate Zone two, they're going to require that you meet a certain SHGC rating. If you want to be the Energy Star homeowner and you want to have a Energy Star product, you're going to have to meet an SHGC rating as well. I believe Energy Star is a 0.23 in the Southern zone right now and that's a really good SHGC. I've seen us get under 20 before and again, lower the number the better. But yeah, there are some areas that do require you that you have to meet a 0.25 or less.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Got it. Okay. So with all your years of experience and lots of conversations, do you have any stories you can share around this topic?
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Well, the first one that comes to mind is probably the one question that we get a lot. We get phone calls after new windows and doors been installed. You have the homeowners, they're very excited. They got these brand new energy efficient windows and doors and they go up and they touch the glass and they're like, wait a minute, the glass is hot. I thought you told me you put this special low E stuff on it that's going to help reflect it. Why is my glass hot? And the reason is because you're in front of the Florida sun, it's still going to warm up. But when we measure, and we mankind measures, how much of that heat's coming through the glass, we don't put the sensor on top of the glass. There's a small distance away from the glass and that's how we determine how much heat is actually passing through. If you have a high performance energy shield. Max lowy on your glass, you have a lot of that heat being reflected, but if you touch the glass, yeah, it's still going to feel warm. It might even feel hot to you, depending on how sensitive you are. But we don't test that way. And that's probably one of the biggest things that's out there is, why is my glass hot? It's still going to warm up, but trust me, it's doing its job.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense. Well, this has been a great episode. Thank you so much for sharing this information. I appreciate your time.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Oh, thank you for having me on. I always enjoy this. Thanks again and have yourself a great day.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah, you as well. Take care.
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